Episode 5 – Does Character Even Matter in Sports? Transcript

[00:00:00] You’re listening to the podcast Detroit Network visit http://www.podcastdetroit.com for more information.

This is the Grand Design Podcast with DJ and Gerry Grand as we link the chains of reason to sports, politics and culture.

[00:00:33] DJ: Welcome back to the Grand Designs Podcast. This is DJ Grand and with me as always is my partner Jerry Grand.

Jerry: Hello

DJ: Before we get started. I want to tell you how you can get in touch with us. You can go to granddesignspodcast.com, @granddesignspod with Twitter and @granddesignspodcast for Instagram. Today, We’re going to be talking about character and how it’s necessary within all the sports and if it even matters [00:01:03]

Jerry: Well, that’s just it isn’t necessary anymore. This Monday took off the Kareem Hunt who was let go by the Kansas City Chiefs for domestic violence. There was a film of him kicking a woman they cut him right away. Just this is a game a week 12 and he was leading the league in rushing. He was a part of their office. So, he was a stud and they just outright let him go. They said that he lied. He didn’t tell him he said that nothing happened. He wasn’t [00:01:33] there and it turned out the film came up the video that proved it. So, the Chiefs let him go right away, whether the whole, the playoffs, you know, what happened with the Chiefs happened, Patriots won. Now, it’s the offseason and the Cleveland Browns signed him for a million dollars.

And the fans of Detroit are just livid. A well-known talk show sports radio afternoon show is leading the way that the lions were wrong now, I think it’s Dan Quinn, the GM with the Lions came out and said they thought about it, but [00:02:03] they did not want that character and they have lit him up for not getting, not taking the gamble for Kareem Hunt because they went and looked at, I think it was the Rams, who were one and fifteen three or four years ago and they aquired three players Agib Talib, Derrick Flowers and I can’t remember  the third player with criminal history and they’re using that as if that’s okay now. As long as you win your Championship, it’s okay. And again, they’re really busting the Lions but there’s a caveat [00:02:33] that I’ll bring up after I get your response on what you feel about this.

DJ: It’s the same as always. It’s pragmatism the Lions fans don’t care about principles of weather…and we’re talking about hurting somebody here. We’re not just talking about some nonchalant mistake.

Jerry: This is integrity. This is pure character.

DJ: Absolutely and obviously Lions fans and the radio don’t care about character,

Jerry: I don’t think they’re thinking it through. Do you really want to win a championship with person? [00:03:03] Well, actually they’ve already got somebody they acquired them last two years LeGarrette Blount. I mean, he’s famous for his senior season opening day in the end of the game just punching a point off a fellow not fellow team that he was playing

DJ: an opponent

Jerry: and the end of the game in a walking off with the helmets off and he just slugged him got suspended the whole year from the NCAA and then was drafted in the first round which is got forgotten about

DJ: Because they don’t care about right or wrong. They care about the glittering prize of winning the championship.

Jerry: He’s won two championships [00:03:33] now, when will the Eagles and one with the Patriots

DJ: And that’s what the Lions fans want. See that’s what matters to them. It’s the championship that glittering prize, not principle.

Jerry: and this is where I think there’d being hypocritical because in the beginning of the year if you go back what did they do to Matt Patricia? They raked him over the coals because of a supposed non-sexual. Yeah real he was a part of and that how come Dan Quinn didn’t vet and investigate this? How could he be part of the coaching staff? They wanted him gone the first week because they got blown out [00:04:03] in the used that as a reason to get rid of them yet. Here. We are in the season and now that doesn’t matter no more go get this player.

DJ: Not that’s just hypocrisy.

Jerry: Well again, it’s the media and this is where it’s more or less they chose entertainment because they are entertaining the fans because character does matter and I’m kind of very pleased that Quinn came out and said such that we’re not going to go in that direction. I completely agree because now it also goes into should the Lions because right now Antonia Brown wants to trade to the Lions and they brought Kareem Hunt and Antonio [00:04:33] Brown take a chance go out there and get Antonio Brown.

DJ: See, if it’s more than just ability to especially with Antonio Brown because with the with the Steelers, it was the locker room chaos, it was caused by Antonio Brown.

Jerry: He has fractured that locker room and he just came out and went off on Ben Roethlisberger as being he has an owner mentality.

DJ: Well, this was my point. You’re sacrificing a cohesive locker room just to try and win a championship. You’re not going to do it. It’s going to Hurt.

Jerry: [00:05:03] with Antonio Brown. It will not be cohesive. There’s just no way unless he gets the ball if he gets the ball he’s happy and you named him MVP and I literally mean that because this whole thing with the Steelers because he was named MVP Juju Smith-Schuster was and he did not like that at all and Smith-Schuster had more yards, more catches and he did he had a better year than and Antonio Brown got upset that the team didn’t elect him as MVP, hence, [00:05:33] walked out of practice just walked out didn’t show up and that’s when Tomlin benched him wouldn’t claim in that game because he walked out now, he’s demanding a trade. What do you think’s going to happen when he gets to this new team and doesn’t get the ball?

DJ: He’s going cause chaos within the locker room. It also shows that Antonio Brown isn’t authentic. If he was authentic, it wouldn’t have mattered. He would have played either way whether you got the MVP not, what matters is what I do out on the field and it shows he’s not authentic

Jerry: but it’s [00:06:03] about him

DJ: and that’s why he’s not authentic.

Jerry: Do you want this kind of person on your team?

DJ: I wouldn’t want it. But obviously Detroit your fans do and Detroit radio stations do because they want the championship.

Jerry: but I believe they’re so desperate that it’s driving them to the extreme

DJ: they are but that doesn’t make it right

Jerry: if they win that Championship. How valuable is it?

DJ: to me? It wouldn’t be but to them it would be a lot they be partying in the streets just like when then Tigers won in 84 and they went out in the streets and partied. That’s [00:06:33] what it would be. That’s what they’re looking for that parade.

Jerry: So, it’s about winning that trophy then that’s all it’s about anymore. That’s pretty sad that comes that state and sports where character gets thrown out the window because back when we were growing up, it was all about character didn’t matter. How good you were. If you do not uphold, for example, the Lombardi rules, you’re off the team even if you scored of touchdown and broke the play you still got penalized that does not happen now.

DJ: Well, I’m glad they didn’t go after Kareem Hunt. I don’t think he deserves to be playing anywhere and well if it comes out that [00:07:03] he’s guilty.

Jerry: Until the investigation is complete.

DJ: Yes, then he should not be playing anywhere. So, I’m glad they passed over him. Even if it means they lose because of it. I think for once the Lion’s management did the right thing.

Jerry: I completely agree but that will take us into now our second topic about character, which is Matt Kuchar. Now, back in November Matt Kuchar want a golf tournament and at the time his caddie could not make this weekend could not make the tournament. So, he went and got a club caddy set up a contract that they signed. The contract said, basically, if [00:07:33] you make a week if I make it past the cut you get $2,000 if I make it to the third round you get $3000

DJ: The caddy gets $3000

Jerry: the caddy gets $3000 make it to the third round. It’s for the third round three thousand. The fourth round is $4000, top 10 meaning end of the tournament, if I finish the top 10 you get $4000 that was the deal. He won the tournament and gave him five thousand, a thousand-dollar bonus. Was Kuchar wrong for doing that?

DJ: I [00:08:03] guess it depends. I mean contractually, no, he wasn’t wrong at all. He’d do what he was contractually obligated to do and then went above and beyond and gave me an extra thousand dollars.

Jerry: Okay, here’s where the I guess I’m not telling you. This caddy wasn’t a pro caddy. He was the club caddy just one of the guys that worked with this club the pro caddies they get 10% of the winning that golfer wins the it’s in the rule they get 10%

DJ: But isn’t that signed before, the contract? That they I mean before the tournament that they get [00:08:33] the 10% and

Jerry: exactly

DJ: So, that caddy did sign that contract.

Jerry: Well, even the caddy signed the contract of the $5,000 or the $4,000 he couldn’t sign the 10% because he didn’t have the card to be a pro caddy if the PGA the golfers got to get their own caddy. And usually they have to be…

DJ: My point was is that they signed a contract to 10% the that’s a part of the PGA caddies. They signed the contract prior to the tournament

Jerry: correct

DJ: So then it’s legitimate and they should [00:09:03] be paid but if he signed a different contract he Kuchar is not obligated to do any other terms but that contract now whether he chooses to go above that and gives more of a reward that’s up to him, but it’s not obligated any other way. It’s like a Christmas gift almost you can give something a certain amount but you don’t have to give anything more than that. I mean, it’s…

Jerry: Well, Matt Kuchar came out the this happened in November. So, it was a while back they won this tournament and just now beginning of February. This caddy comes [00:09:33] out and says, I just got this much. I was expecting $50,000. He published that, he came out and said I was expecting this I feel and then Kuchar offered him $20,000 in the can turn it down. Now, don’t give me the 50,000 just forget it. So now this is all in the media and the fans just tore him up in the last up tournament instead of saying Kuch when he hits the ball. They’d say, “Kuch.” It was “cheap.” The sponsors came after him. They literally made him pay 50,000 is Cady only because the caddy made it vocal and

DJ: that’s damage [00:10:03] control the sponsors trying to control the damage and stopped all the negative feedback

Jerry: Before the sponsor, Kuchar came out and said look the guy made $200 a day. I think five thousand for a weekend a pretty good rate. I’m sleeping well at night. So, he was defending his actions of giving him that contract but today before I’m getting ready for our show, I would listen to the Will Cain show and they came out and said not one person agree with Kuchar. I’m here to say I agree. He did nothing wrong

DJ: contractually, he did nothing wrong. He actually went above and beyond to give him extra thousand

Jerry: Now, had he’d been [00:10:33] smart knowing that he 11.3 million, he probably would have gave them that, you know, the 25,000 back in November and not let it wait until the caddy came out and brought to the media. Is that it became, you’re right, damage control and now the sponsors are involved.

DJ: It’s two different issues. It’s whether he’s contractually obligated and he’s not or whether he should pay more money because he got 1.5 million, you said?

Jerry: 1.3 same thing

DJ: that are two separate issues. I mean, he could have afforded it, he doesn’t have to if he sent it’s all about character if it’s in his character and he’s [00:11:03] a good person, he would have given him a little bit more but it’s he didn’t have to I mean,

Jerry: I agree, I’m here to say he did the right thing. He had the contract set up now PR-wise, he probably should have just said before this just damage control before it even got out gave them the whatever twenty, twenty-five, thirty thousand dollars back in November. This never would have happened now for the caddy wait and say something three months later is still a little bit sneaky and he kind of played Kuchar there and let it go for a while and then got the media involved and knowing full [00:11:33] well that the media was going to just lynch him and they did

DJ: I wonder why waiting this long made a difference. I mean, what’s it been saying it right away when it happened or wait 3-4 months. Why now did it cause the uproar?

Jerry: I don’t work for why that get I’d have to ask him. I don’t know why he waited.

DJ: I don’t get it

Jerry: which now brings us into Colin Kaepernick and this is really current because just today the NFL announced a they basically settle his collusion case. [00:12:03] Now, I find that baffling because there was no collusion. The owners did not get together, there was no smoking gun. They had no document so why they settled don’t think I can figure this wanted to get just to go away but getting back to the

DJ: Once again, bad PR

Jerry: correct? They wanted to just say well the complaint that was going on the NFL saving their face. They have so much money just pay a little bit to go away now standing during the national anthem isn’t that another way of

DJ: well, it does show character [00:12:33] but my point with the national anthem is I think people are getting that so, so wrong, I don’t think anyone America is what they are because of choice, I mean individual rights are choice. You have the choice to be who you want to be the definition or the point of fascism is to make the masses act as one. What are you doing, when you stand up when 20,000 or 80,000 all stand up together, all put their hands on their heart, all sing the same song [00:13:03] try and hit the same notes? That is a fascist undertaken. I think it’s the ignorance of the people that demanding anybody to stand whether you stand or not should be an individual Choice. I’m not saying it’s wrong to stand but it’s also not wrong to sit either and they made a big deal over nothing and I think they don’t understand that actually they’re cheering for fascism. All the masses are acting as one

Jerry: and the masses believe that because of the Vets, the [00:13:33] guys would die for this country the die, they died for our individual rights that we owe them to stand up and take they take a little more personal especially

DJ: I can argue with that. They they fought for their freedom and they fought for the freedom of others and freedom means you can stand or sit. That is freedom. That is a contradiction to say I went out there and fought for you. Now, you have to stand up when during the national anthem. You can also go into why isn’t it National Anthem being played before meaningless games? Are there more important times [00:14:03] to play the national anthem then meaningless sporting events?

Jerry: I hate to say but tradition it’s always been that way

DJ: tradition doesn’t necessarily make it right

Jerry: I agree but that’s why they do it. They’ve done that for just for ever since the beginning of when sports were played but now, I agree with you but I think Kaepernick he picked the wrong venue for his protest because he protested during the national anthem went on his knee when it had nothing to do with first social inequality. There were other platforms [00:14:33] for him to go out and actually bent or expose his point of view via run for office

DJ: He could have taken it to the streets

Jerry: or like Bill Walton did back in the you see how this guy played for UCLA in college went out and literally shut down I forget the street when they just blocked it all off because of the whole peace movement and I forget everything is Berkeley California. They shut it they just shut it down. So, I give Walton he didn’t protests the game. He played the game, but

DJ: Take it to the streets

Jerry: he get took it to the street and actually protested their Kaepernick he This is just my [00:15:03] opinion flat out here. He did that because he lost his starting job and he wanted to protest and he said social injustice just to get him out of hot water and the story now after he did that it blew up the media took it hit the players that the Press just took it to another level of the way that social inequality, but when we get to the equality, you can’t be equal and this guy makes 26 million dollars or at the time a year, and [00:15:33] he’s sitting here talking about social inequality? That people don’t have the chance to make money or it was a police brutality and all that stuff, but I don’t want to get into they were actually committing a crime they may have went too far the police but they were committing a crime that’s all left out it then goes back to kneeling for the national anthem for social justice social inequality.

DJ: It was social justice, but I think that’s another mistake like when the people stood up or forced in to stand up for national [00:16:03] anthem. Social justice is an invalid concept because Justice is an absolute. There’s no such thing as Black Justice, White Justice, Chinese justice. Justice is an end in itself. It is justice. So, and it kind of when you have this when you have to dilute it by bringing in Social in front of Justice, you’re kind of stealing the legitimacy of the proper concept of Justice to make your cause better. If it is just is simply Justice. You don’t need [00:16:33] to put social in front of it to make it just. Now, I’m not saying that there isn’t police brutality. That’s not the point. The point is that the concept of social justice is wrong just like standing up for the national anthem as a fascistic undertaken. I don’t think most people understand exactly what unwittingly they’re not they don’t know what they’re standing up for.

Jerry: The masses are incredibly ignorant. They do not know and worse yet, they don’t know that they don’t know.

DJ: Absolutely.

Jerry: I agree with you there. But with Colin Kaepernick, [00:17:03] I think he brought it, it was more of bringing the attention to him. It had nothing to do with the social that was just the platform that he was taking. I don’t think he believed that one minute. He was bringing attention to himself. What was happening to him. He was being benched.

DJ: Well, I think I think that’s Jim Harbaugh ever since Jim Harbaugh left his quality (of play) went down and then he found himself no longer the starter and what else can I do? Bring attention to me so that way I can get a starting job again. [00:17:33] It makes total sense to me.

Jerry:  now that he’s a settled the collusion with the NFL, I find it. I can’t believe he’s going to get a job. Yet, his attorney came out and said there’s a there’s three teams that he would fit perfectly with. Now, I cannot believe after him settling the collusion lawsuit that the NFL would let him play again because again, he starts he gets benched. Now, you’re colluding he can do it all over again.

DJ: That’s what…the NFL has smart lawyers. I have to believe they do and it would be totally surprising [00:18:03] to me if the NFL did not put some kind of clause in Kaepernick’s settlement that he can’t come back to me. He can’t get a job for the NFL again because he can do the same thing just as you said if he throws three interceptions goes out and then is benched again. He can then say they’re colluding against me because the no one’s let me play he could pull the same exact stuff.

Jerry: He got away with the first time so why couldn’t do it again this

DJ: that’s why it will totally shock me if he actually does get another [00:18:33] job in the NFL because of the fact that I can’t believe the NFL would allow that to happen. It puts the NFL in a very vulnerable position by allowing him to go back out there on the field

Jerry: First, I don’t believe there was collusion. I’ve said it before the beginning of the show here. There was no smoking gun that they didn’t have any proof that the owners got together and said we do not want this guy. Now each individual owner, I think, made a direct statement to their GM. We don’t need this attention this negative distraction to our team. [00:19:03] We do not want that here. It wasn’t a group. It was each person, each business realizing this guy’s bad. He’s bad for business and they happen for two years now. He’s been out of the league for two years. It had nothing to do with his talent because the ironic Park is when he is

Season he was 1 and 10. So in the NFL is about winning but his stats they were they’re pretty good. They’re better than Stafford’s. 16 touchdowns, four interceptions. I think over 5,000 yards again, but the team was the one that one in ten the team they’re horrible. Terrible [00:19:33] Harbaugh had left. So, in the NFL is all about winning. He couldn’t win anymore. He tried out for Pete Carroll and they did not take them. Now, he tried out. They actually had worked him out. Why wouldn’t they take him if he could play and help them win? We’re getting back to character now. Why is it that Kareem Hunt, who has no character, can get a job within six months of a video being shown of him kicking a woman? He’s now re-employed yet Kaepernick. He’s unemployed. It’s not about Talent now because [00:20:03] if he was good, then if a team would have picked him back up.

DJ: You’re right. I totally agree with you. He I think if he had the talent he would he would be playing right now. And that’s another thing even besides the contract. He hasn’t played in two years at least so he’s got to be rusty. That’s not going to help him.

Jerry: But I guess my point to the league where it wasn’t collusion. If the guy could help a team would have picked him up if he had the skills and could still do it a team would have

DJ: Well, his argument is that because he [00:20:33] could play in his stats did say that that there was there had to have been some sort of collusion to stop him from getting it getting a job.

Jerry: The one person in his NFL quarterback that really aids Kaepernick side is Nathan Peterman. Do you know who he is? He’s he was the NFL of the Buffalo Bills quarterback. He’s terrible. He’s the worst quarterback QBR in NFL history. seven interceptions in one game, in one half as a matter of fact. He went down as the worst quarterback ever. So, the Colin [00:21:03] Kaepernick Camp is well that appears collusion because this guy – Kaepernick was better than this guy. So why isn’t Kaepernick it back in the league? So now I go back to what if Kareem Hunt can get a job and he has low character. Why wouldn’t they? One team out of 32.

DJ: It’s possible that like when you said over for Pete Carroll on the Seahawks that they looked at them as an individual and said, he will hurt our individual franchise and they didn’t all the owners didn’t sit around a room smoking their cigars saying [00:21:33] no one’s we’re not going to hire this guy.

Jerry: I think that happened at every single team because I think every single team brought up Colin Kaepernick and they all agreed he’s not good-distraction.

DJ: That’s because the character. They thought his character would have hurt his team based on him protesting.

Jerry:  Which is why we get back to I cannot see him getting a job in the NFL. They just paid him and I’m understanding we won’t know it’s private but it was a lot of money. It was substantial. Reed didn’t get that much. But Colin Kaepernick got a lot of money from the NFL.

DJ: if Kaepernick is smart, he would [00:22:03] have projected himself playing another ten years in the NFL. he would have got compensated for those 10 years whether I have no idea what the NFL paid him nobody does but

Jerry: it won’t come off for a while. It’ll be got, you know down the road ten years, whatever this. I’m sure there’s a confidentiality agreement within that settlement.

DJ: There is that that’s one thing they did come out and say

Jerry: no matter how long it is, when we’ll come out and we’ll finally know. As far as Kaepernick signing-March 13th. That’s the day the new season starts. If teams are going to sign him if it’s going to happen, It’s going to happen that [00:22:33] day. For example, right now Joe Flacco’s already been traded. It can’t be official until March 13, but the Broncos have already acquired them from the Ravens. All right, it’s out in the press and negotiate it and what that’s why this not tampering. I don’t know but it’s been talked about and it’s been actually said Elway agreed to it. So, Kaepernick goes out and get signed. They’ll basically say hey they’ve agreed to sign Kaepernick but can’t do it till March 13th. So, there’s our two-week window. But again, the attorney for Kaepernick is out there saying this you’d think he would say but [00:23:03] really he be quiet because he can’t talk about it and knowing Colin Kaepernick’s pretty much done.

DJ: He just can’t talk about what the agreement they can talk about anything else.

Jerry: and the funny part was he would only a patriot coach who has Patriot Heritage would be a good fit for Colin. That’s Matt Patricia, Flores in Miami. Now the gentleman that’s in Tennessee. I forget his name and then the guy Houston.

DJ: Well didn’t-I could have sworn I read, didn’t he say with Eric Reed in Carolina with the Panthers [00:23:33] because it would be a fit to.

Jerry: there’s a New England connection with the Panthers to there’s a coach on New England that used to be with, on the Panthers that used to be with New England. Every single team there is a New England connection somewhere. So, there’s where I’m just this attorney just I don’t know being the attorney the press conference Geoffrey Fieger (acting like) and bring attention to himself not really the actual meat of it, which is he can’t talk.

DJ: I can’t figure it out. But maybe it’s because he thinks that they’ll they have the best chance of winning something. So, push him that way promoting him to go that way

Jerry: that’s possible. But again, [00:24:03] I think that’s when we can talk about in two weeks because we’ll know more then but as of right now, I don’t think we’ll see Colin Kaepernick and I look I understand if he wants to protest but he has many Avenues to do it, but doing it for the national anthem and the way he did it was just completely wrong.

DJ: It just gave the NFL a huge black eye and that could be why I think they settled

Jerry: Just go away

DJ: exactly. They didn’t want to have this guy and bad news constantly coming again and again.

Jerry: They’ve got so much money. They can just say hey just go away. We don’t want to [00:24:33] talk about this anymore. We don’t want this publicity coming back at us and they’re more public relations conscience, even though they’re blowing it left and right but that’s what the NFL’s more PR than they are because I got so much money.

DJ: I’ll be shocked. I’ll be totally shocked if they if any single team signs him whatsoever. I just I really think that the NFL is smarter than that.

Jerry: I would agree but we have to wait and see because again, his attorney saying that there’s three teams I’ll take him which but that brings into character with comes into the minor leagues of the NFL which the NCAA and how [00:25:03] they offer their scholarships. Now Harbaugh and Sabin are the ones that are most known for just being crude and rude and it’s all about

DJ: I would say ruthless, not rude, but go ahead.

Jerry: Well what when you bring a kid up freshman year I don’t care what star he is now, but you sign he signs it goes to the program and whatever happens a sophomore year breaks his leg. And now the Junior year you’re coming here and telling them and I quote, “you know, you’re on a medical you’re not going to play this year you’re done and we’re getting a scholarship is somebody else.” This kid [00:25:33] is now he’s got to go out and get a scholarship in the next two years. He’s not playing football. They made it clear. You’re not playing for us. So, he has an option to transfer and sit out a year to hope to play again, but it’s basically you’re no good to us anymore. I know we offered that four-year. The only been here two years, but we’re going to go a different direction. Now we’re going to offer this scholarship to a five-star were bringing in the 2020 class.

DJ: But how is it any different the NFL? Someone breaks her leg and they signed a five-year contract they break their leg after one year and [00:26:03] and then say we’re done with you no more. I mean, how is it any different?

Jerry: the NFL they’re getting paid and then I’m talking about in terms in the contract. I mean, how is it any different that the NFL can just let someone go the same way that the Collegiate teams can just let someone go I mean to me it’s exactly the same.

Jerry: College athlete is got a Now find a way to pay for two more years when he thought he was going to get a full four-year ride because he got hurt he does not get that anymore. He’s on his own.

DJ: Isn’t it contingent on him playing [00:26:33] though? If he doesn’t Play, Why is the college obligated to pay for someone who’s not benefiting them whatsoever?

Jerry: That’s a good question. Are they just like when the NFL gets hurt you got workman’s comp and you’re being paid you for the injury the therapy for how long it takes to get back that kids scholarship should be paid for. He should still go to school and how it goes against what the NCAA rules about it being a college scholarship. That’s a whole other issue.

DJ: In fairness, I have heard [00:27:03] them paying for injuries (with scholarships) It’s I think your argument would be better based on what they’re just on Talent

Jerry: there’s other examples where the guy just isn’t good enough anymore. He doesn’t fit the team. He’s kind of not improved the way or developed in a good-

McDoom, in the first couple of years that kid was just quick as hell. Where’s he at now?

DJ: Well, he had to transfer and think that was also about size, too. He wasn’t as big as…

Jerry: it may be but he had a scholarship and now the kids scrambling because he didn’t get hurt and he’s

DJ: See, I kind [00:27:33] of agree with that that because it’s based it’s based on performance. It’s based on whether you go out there and do the college on your given the scholarship to play and if you can’t play then why are they obligated to continue on with the scholarship? I mean, it’s contingent upon you playing

Jerry: that 4 year scholarship is a degree which gets that kid into a profession. So, and they’re if they’re promising them and that that for that letter of intent if it’s for a four-year [00:28:03] scholarship now,

DJ: I don’t think it is. I think it’s just a play. Well, I think get your scholarship lockdown for that year or how are you going to play? I don’t think it’s automatically 4 years.

Jerry: If I’m not mistaken, they go year by year.

DJ: Yeah, it’s not for Four years, that’s my point.

Jerry: That’s what makes it tough for the kid because the kid just jumped to the conclusion. I got a four-year ride at whatever University of Michigan. That’s not really true. It’s a four-year ride, if you produce if you give us a results. All right, but here we go that kid who came in whatever back [00:28:33] kind of economical background but he can’t afford College, you know University of Michigan alone Notre Dame would all these prestigious schools. Where it cost money now the kids out looking to transfer and it be transferred to a D1 school. He’s sitting the next year and the only reason they go to these big programs is to it’s a next step in the NFL. Now, that dreams just been shattered because whatever reason

DJ: I think if they’re good enough to make Michigan they’re good enough to get on another college and get a scholarship and get an education. So, I don’t think that an education is just automatically wiped out for them. However [00:29:03]

Jerry: They’re going to have to sit out a year though.

DJ: If you are logically consistent, then you’d have to say that they have to keep everybody that they first recruit or who signs a letter of intent and if it doesn’t pan out there stuck with them, there’s no way they can improve you’re there for four years and I don’t think that’s fair to the college.

Jerry:  Okay, I okay I agree. But what about the athlete happened to play in the Bowl game. Right now, there’s a big issue about a cash machine.

DJ: I think Rashan Gary was right for not playing [00:29:33] he could have hurt himself.

Jerry: John Jensen would disagree with you.

DJ: I don’t care what John Jenson says, I think John Jansen is wrong

Jerry: he would say no you signed a commitment you owe that University to play that game you owe them. I heard I’m quoting John Jensen because he was livid because he’s players who do not play the ball game and how he played he played his ballgame. He went out and you know, the whole memories and I get that stuff but almost they committed to the school. So, where’s that commitment [00:30:03] back to from the school to them?

DJ:  the committed to the school not to the Bowl Game.  

Jerry: that school wins their bowl bid. Then they have to come to the school is playing for that bowl, whether it be the Peach Bowl, the Car Classic or even the Cherry Bowl or the Motor City bowl

DJ: But still, they did not commit to any bowl game. They should not be obligated. Once again, it’s choice.

Jerry: They committed to the university…

DJ: Morality is about choice and if you take away the choice you take away morality. So, what you’re basically saying is be immoral you have to play you don’t have a choice anymore. [00:30:33] I totally disagree with that. I think especially on his individual interest, speaking of Rashan Gary anyways,

Jerry: all of them.

DJ: They could what if he would have got hurt during that game and he would have he would drop down his ranking in the draft?

Jerry: John Jensen would use a I think his name was Jake Butt, the tight end, who got hurt in the bowl game and he was projected first round. He lost millions of dollars and Jake Butt said was all worth it. I do it again. He’s in the NFL now, but he had insurance policy cashed out.

DJ: He made that choice good [00:31:03] for him. I’m not saying, I mean that’s great. But he made the choice

Jerry: John Jensen used him as the example of the commitment to the university John Jensen is, you know, true blue, go Blue you all the university. You sign that letter of intent for four years you owe that college to play the Bowl game, that you went through the whole season, you coming to the university and the university has had the honor of playing whatever bowl game it is and now you owe it to the university will play that bowl game.

DJ: That’s a contradiction because then they would be obligated to do the four-year scholarship.

Jerry: That’s what [00:31:33] I’m getting at.

DJ: If that’s the game they’re going to play, It’s just other side of a coin.

Jerry: That is the game right now because it’s huge

DJ: and they’re wrong. They’re saying that it’s okay for us to cut a player early not into the four years, but you have to commit to your entire four years and play the bowl game. That’s absolutely wrong

Jerry: that’s –

DJ: That’s a contradiction.

Jerry: that’s my point B and John Jensen is clear of the University of Michigan how upset he was with Gary, Higdon and the other

DJ: Devin Bush didn’t play

Jerry: Evan Bush all of them. I think Long didn’t play, the defensive [00:32:03] back. There’re four players that didn’t play. He was not happy with those four, any Michigan man went back to others. He was he was going off on all the player to didn’t play this year every year it increases. And what it is, these guys are first-round picks. If they’re projected in the first round, they’re not playing now. I’ll even go one step further this year with a defensive tackle Lawrence with Clemson. Now, this guy was clean, one of the top defensive linemen in the country. He’s big and quick like Rashan Geary clean his whole career but [00:32:33] conveniently tested positive before the NFL for the college playoffs. Now, he’s out. He just senior and no one’s saying a word about it. He conveniently basically did not want to play in the ball game. Now, they…

DJ: my hands are tied. I had I can’t play no matter what. It takes Choice out to

Jerry: I got busted I can’t play but, in the beginning, I think there’s

DJ: That’s conniving, that’s what that is

Jerry: and I’m going on the record saying I think that was planned. He wanted he did not want to catch the grief for not playing for his [00:33:03] his alma mater, especially when Clemson was in the college playoffs and that takes it to another level because now that the kids are playing they’re saying that they go to the playoffs they’ll play the game, which is not true

DJ: Well,  that shows me the shallowness of his character and we’re talking about character if you’re going to connive like that to get out of it and I just come out and be a man and say no, I don’t want to play at least I can handle Rashan Gary and Devin Bush because they were they were sticking with her honest and they said we’re going for the draft the NFL draft. That’s what’s important. Now I get [00:33:33] that and that they have every right to do that.

Jerry: Nick Bosa upped that he up that whole ante when

DJ: I was building was going to bring him up. Yeah. That makes him wrong for wiping out an entire season to get ready for the NFL. I was going to bring him up.

Jerry: There are some that are blaming him for Ohio State’s downfall in that part of the season because he left, he just had the core surgery

DJ: in one player?

Jerry: Yes

DJ:  so much for the great recruiter, Ohio State if just one player would cause you to go down

Jerry: it goes back to the commitment. Those that have will build you up will push you down right away. And that’s John Jensen. They’ll [00:34:03] basically he’ll say well Son, you know, you didn’t qualify you really didn’t measure up. He didn’t develop as we you know expected. So, we’re taking the scholarship away but had he developed you owe us to plan that ball game.

DJ:  like I’ve already said that’s a blatant contradiction. It’s wrong both ways. It’s if you’re going to say that I don’t have to pay in the for the I don’t have to do the commit to the four-year scholarship. Then they don’t have to commit to the bowl Game.

Jerry:  now here’s another version of the recruiting Cliff Kingsbury. He was hired as the USC [00:34:33] offensive coordinator for this season coming up. So those guys got to go out and recruit. He recruited one of the top High School wide receivers in Texas and that kid signed a letter of intent to go to UCLA USC based on Kliff Kingsbury. Now, you’ve already stated that you don’t sign the for the coach, you sign for the University but that kid went there volunteered for that offense because of how the offense Cliff Kingsbury wrong which is spread open shoot run-scorer left and right [00:35:03] three days after the kids sign their intent Cliff was hired for the Arizona Cardinals. Now this kid is out cold different system different coach. He went there for that coach and now the coach is gone. Now he has since transferred to Texas but he’s lost his freshman year. He has to sit his freshman year and will play a sophomore year

DJ: only if USC stick to their guns, they can release them from the letter of intent,

Jerry: but they won’t nobody said there won’t he’s already transferred [00:35:33] with the year suspension. Just like Mike Weber the same thing happened to him. He wanted to go to Michigan. Higdon committed he backed out but the running backs coach for Ohio State was a good friend in the coach. I believe at the high school in Detroit where Weber was playing

DJ: wasn’t it Cass?

Jerry: Yeah, I think it was Cass Tech, anyway, she was the coach there, but then he went to Ohio State on Weber’s senior year in high school. He was saying, “Mike come here, Come here.” Three days later, he bolted, he’s now the New York Jets running back coach. Now Weber wanted to go [00:36:03] to Michigan. There was no way. Ohio State would let him out. Now, he rebelled by wearing a Michigan shirt into the Ohio State locker room in the weight room and he caught a H-E-double L for that that but that was his way of revolting because they wouldn’t let him go. No, they’re not going to let him go. This kid was a top and the number one wide receiver in the country. USC is not let her out of that and they made that clear. So again,

DJ: I’ve heard of colleges letting guys go when coaches leave they’re not obligated to they’re not they don’t have to if you don’t

Jerry: If they have [00:36:33] the number one wide receiver, number one quarterback that whatever position number one, do you think they’re releasing them. No. If it’s was a mediocre player and then get a better player that scholarship. Yeah, it’s kind of like a washing the let him go but if it hurts the recruiting class,

DJ: I could have sworn somebody from Mississippi State. They were the same thing happened to them and they first said no and then Mississippi State released them, I wish I could remember that the player’s name

Jerry: only where they release them if the NCAA’s huge on this, if they go to a division II school [00:37:03] they can play right away, but they transfer one to one. They have to wait a year.

DJ: No, they can be released by the college

Jerry: unless yes, that’s only if the college does something that is not, I don’t want to say fair who was the quarterback Patterson. There’s a good example what the Old Miss they got busted in a bowl ban, and he claimed that they lied to me now my college career. I’m never going to a bowl. I want to transfer without having to sit out and the NCAA went through how long of Courts and lawyers and they actually remembered [00:37:33] and they got it release.

DJ: That’s the NCAA. That’s not the college itself. I still…it’s the choice of the college they can look at the contract.

Jerry: They can

DJ: the national letter of intent is a contract so you can force someone to you can rip a contract anytime you want so they can choose to rip the contract up and let him go

Jerry: Right. What I’m telling you is though if it’s the number one wide receiver in the country that is not getting ripped up. It was number one quarterback, linebacker or defensive player defensive back you [00:38:03] sign with us. You’re sticking here. Now. That’s 4. I mean a 2 star or one star in college, right? That’s a different story. You’re right.

DJ: Can you blame them though? If it is by your premise if it is a five-star recruit, why would you want them to go and he signed a contract once again, I don’t think the university who would do that in this case. USC is wrong in any way they want the talent. They signed the talent.

Jerry: Correct, but that kids go not for universities, they go for the coach.

DJ: Now it says right [00:38:33] in the National Letter of Intent you go to the university not to the coach.

Jerry: That’s not what an 18-year-old is reading the 18-year-old is thinking Cliff Kingsbury that offense and now you’re bringing in a fullback the kids not good.

DJ: IS the eighteen-year-old, he’s reached the age of majority. Is he able to sign a contract out? Can you read and get lawyers to sign a contract and tell him what if the contract is good or not? You can’t tell me he went in and ignorant. You can’t tell me he didn’t know what he was signing for USC.

Jerry: I agree with that part but once Cliff Kingsbury left, but [00:39:03] anyways, if I think that’s very important that that kid or that athlete is going for that coach and that coach just barrels and bolts. There’s no penalty for him. The coach was going to college. There’s no waiting. There’s no penalty under sit out a year. He gets his seven million dollars. Whatever the buyout is. He goes with the kid has to if he wants to transfer because now, he wants to go to school who’s got that offense. Now, what I say is that this is changing the parameters, but if my kid is a 5 Star athlete, you know, you’re not signing anything. [00:39:33] You’re not signing a damn thing. You’re going to show up the first day of work out you’re there.

DJ: the point of the natural our intent is to secure a scholarship. If you do that and you have more leverage the five-star.

Jerry: Only five-star I agree

DJ: then you can do that. But anyone else you’re doing it to get the scholarship to make sure you’re going to school.

Jerry: I think how its setup though, these letters of intent should not be signed until the coaching staff is set

DJ: but aren’t the coaches under contract? Don’t they have be released from their contract?

Jerry: No, they’re bought out. It’s a buyout

DJ: that’s another form of release [00:40:03] but that’s the wait. Wait. That’s the same exact thing I’m saying they should do for the letter of intent for the kid.

Jerry: but the kid can’t buy it out.

DJ: Well because he’s not paid. No, they could all take into his release him. It’s another form of a release.

Jerry: Right but that does…

DJ: If you can’t do it for the coach, you can do it for the student.

Jerry: Let me give an example. Jim Harbaugh, He is wanted, there are a ton of colleges but he’s got a huge buy out for Michigan, like 5 million. The school will pay the getting Harbaugh will pay, let’s say, it’s Texas. They [00:40:33] will pay Michigan 5 million to be happy to lewer Harbaugh away. All right, so they’re going to pay that buyout. There’s no buy out for the college athlete once he signs it. He is locked dead and Barrel into that school unless he can leave but he sits out a year. I think the whole sitting out of years got to go. He wants to go let him go let him go where they want to play. If it isn’t the coaching staff now Look it’s even been one up now because now it’s not coaching staff Justin Fields, the number one quarterback last year for Georgia. He [00:41:03] didn’t play this year. Guess what he’s doing. He’s transferring to Ohio State.

Now if there’s no injury, there’s no coaching changes and they may…it’s not Georgia didn’t release him. The NCAA saying, you know, just like Patterson they have to go that whole thing, but I’m willing to bet he’s going to play this year. So why can’t that be Universal just for all athletes?

DJ: Well, theoretically it can be but if the rules are in place before the season starts, they should be followed. I mean, that’s so

Jerry: well, it is it is it ethical [00:41:33] to have the athletes sit out the year if you want to transfer

DJ: if that’s the rules. I mean, that’s what set up the I can’t..they have the choice not to sign will make with ethical, unethical would be if you take choice away from them, but they’re willfully signing that contract

Jerry: once they sign that they’re pretty much in that to the universe.

DJ: and they know that going into it. So, I don’t I don’t see it being against the student all that much because we’re talking about adults are there all 18 they’re all able or theoretically I guess you could sign a letter [00:42:03] of intent at 17 go into next year, but there are about to reach the age of majority. Which makes them legally able to sign a contract that is a valid and binding contract. I don’t see a problem at all with the university holding them to the contract. That’s what they sign.

Jerry: I guess my concern not problem. My concern is the kid being the 18th sign that contract is not signing to the university. I know the contract says I’m signed, I’m committing to the University of Michigan, but I’m coming [00:42:33] for Jim Harbaugh. That’s what I’m signing this letter of intent to the University of Michigan.

DJ: So, if Jim Harbaugh leaves and goes to Bowling Green, I’m here you you’re going to go to Bowling Green because you signed for Jim Harbaugh  

Jerry: yes, but I can’t because I have to stay here because If I go to Harbaigh I have to sit out a year

DJ: do you really think he’s going to leave, Michigan.

Jerry: Oh, no,

DJ: that’s my question. That’s my question you brought up to Jim Harbaugh

Jerry: Texas

DJ: I said Bowling Green for a reason because if you’re if you’re truly therefore Jim Harbaugh, [00:43:03] you’ll go wherever Jim Harbaugh goes. So, Jim Harbaugh goes to a lower college or Bowling Green you’re going you’re saying I signed for him. I’m going to Bowling Green.

Jerry: Come on, Harbaugh not going to Bowling Green.

DJ: You’re not answering my question.

Jerry: I think that’s important

DJ: You’re not answering

Jerry: I get what you’re going with this because it’s a lower college but Harbaugh and he’s not going to Bowling Green.

DJ: That’s not the argument.

Jerry: He’s going to Texas he’s going to be bigger school,

DJ: but that’s not the argument. You’re still not answering

Jerry: Bowling Green is not paying the five-million-dollar bonus. It’s a buyout it’s not happening.

DJ: It’s [00:43:33] hypothetical. I’m trying to I’m trying to refute your argument. Your argument was that he’s signing for Jim Harbaugh, if that’s the case. Please. Let me finish if that’s the case. He will follow Jim Harbaugh no matter where he goes. Even if it was Henry Ford Community College, even if he’s following or Eastern Michigan.

Jerry: You are better off saying Eastern. I still say that is ridiculous. You did. That’s why they prove a point and I get your point. He’s not going to Eastern Michigan

DJ: My point is he’s not he’s not signing for Jim Harbaugh. He’s signing for the University of Michigan. Otherwise, [00:44:03] he would follow Jim Harbaugh no matter where Jim Harbaugh went

Jerry: just like it would if I was recruited by Bo Schembechler back in the day. I’m going there for Bo Schembechler.  Bo Schembechler’s not going back to Bowling Green or Miami of Ohio. And if he did, yes now I am screwed because I signed because of Bo Schembechler not the University of Michigan. now, I’m yeah now if I want Bo I got to go to Eastern Michigan where this come from?

DJ: Then where’s your argument that he signed for Bo? Now? Everything is see your contradicted yourself by saying he wouldn’t [00:44:33] follow him. Look all I’m saying it was saying is he gets screwed the second bowl out. I got screwed because I went for Bo

DJ: because you don’t sign for the coach you sign for the University. See no see that’s what I that’s technically the contract says when the player picks the school. They’re going to the offense that they’re going to look a wide receiver is not going to go to a wishbone offense. They’re not doing it because they know they’re not going to throw the ball now all of a sudden you got the they signed to go to a wide-open spread five receiver. They’re going to catch the ball 20 [00:45:03] times a game and now all of a sudden, this coach goes bring Bo Schembechler and it’s three yards of bowl of dust. Uh, bring fullbacks in this wide receiver screwed he went for the often. Now. I know what you’re getting at what the contract says. But again, I’m going for the coach and that’s what I’m not contradicting myself. I want to go to Bo Schembechler and I’m also signed this contract a little bit of trust that Harbaugh or whoever I’m signing He’s not going to go to Eastern Michigan if any where he’d go to a bigger School a better program. And yes, do you sign while [00:45:33] entrust their

DJ: do you sign the contract with Jim Harbaugh or do you sign a contract with the university?

Jerry:  legally it’s with Michigan but I’m going for Jim Harbaugh and the whole point of recruiting Brady Hoke was awesome recruiter crappy coach. Rodriguez,

DJ: what’s your point? I don’t understand the point

Jerry: Brady Hoke could recruit but could not coach. Alright, so these players they were gone for Brady Hoke now when Brady Hoke left and heard Harbaugh was coming how many players transferred?

DJ: all that proves is they weren’t for Brady Hoke. Were they?

Jerry:  exactly what Hoke was [00:46:03] a good recruiter. Harbaugh up in the NFL. Urban Meyer those guys get NFL players and kids know that Nick Saban’s a classic example. They do not go to Alabama for the Crimson Tide the going there for Nick Saban and all these Pros that he’s put out period And if the kid goes there and now Saban, I can’t see, there’s the one where no matter where he goes is going to be a step down. He’s King. He’s got only place he can go as the NFL. And the kids will follow him. They’re going to those [00:46:33] school that school Alabama for saving and

DJ: unless those the Bowling Green they won’t follow him

Jerry: again. Here we go. Again the same come on. Is he even going to Bowling Green?

DJ:  That’s not the argument, Jerry.

Jerry: I know it’s not, the argument is they’re not following Nick Saban.

DJ: they’re going to the college they’re not and not just the college to the one thing will even out here. They’re also going there for an education

Jerry: I agree,

DJ: and Michigan. And Michigan is going to be a better education than Eastern Michigan and they would stay there.

Jerry: I agree that the college the educational getting that’s as to be primary. But when our discussion yes, they’re getting an awesome education

DJ: That’s included [00:47:03] in why they’re signing

Jerry: legally in the contract you are correct there sign themselves to that University when I’m telling you no, they’re going there for those coaches, especially nowadays

DJ: and they’re making a mistake then they’re making a huge. They’re taking a risk and it’s their risk to take they can they can choose a sign anywhere they want but they’re making it a risk in sign in there because Jim Harbaugh even though I don’t think he’s going to he could leave next year and anyone who went there for him would be screwed according [00:47:33] to your scenario.

Jerry: Absolutely

DJ: that’s their risk to take by signing under Harbaugh. And even if he chooses to go, I mean that doesn’t make Harbaugh wrong,

Jerry: but I think of the NCAA should make they should really adjust it with the head coach or coordinators leave, then those kids have a right to go without any penalty

DJ: Then you’ve got to change the contract if you read the national letter of intent. Yes, that’s right in there. You are signing to the university not the coach.

Jerry: I know

DJ: and until that is CH and that’s why I don’t think you have an argument.

Jerry: I think they should take out the the [00:48:03] sitting of one year as a penalty because that coach doesn’t get penalized. And again, it’s changed its not the way it used to be and there’s recruiting all these contracts there from back in the 60s and 50s. When Bo Schembechler, Woody Hayes your code recruiting. So, the language is not changed. But the process the kids the development has changed 120 percent.

DJ: I don’t mind you taking the penalty out. I totally don’t. As long as put in before the year starts and everyone knows the rule think that [00:48:33] hurt I did. I don’t mind it. As long as everyone is playing on a Level Playing Field. My argument is that what I’ve stated over and over again, they’re not signing for the coach.

Jerry: OK

DJ: they may be propelling them to there, that may be convincing them to go there. But ultimately, they are signing for the University

Jerry: I think we’ll have to wait to see if Justin Fields gets released to play for Ohio State because technically, he should wait his sophomore year not played to his a junior now why the other quarterback is already [00:49:03] left tells me he’s going to start he’s going to play and that’s wrong because they let him that forgo that front sitting it out.

DJ: I agree if that happens that would be wrong because he’s not playing someone’s breaking the rules or they’re bending the rules for him. And then they should just wipe the rules out. I totally agree.

Jerry: So, that’s one thing we got to wait and see. All right.

DJ: Well, I guess that settles that. Thanks for listening to The Grand Design podcast. Once again, you can hear us granddesignspodcast.com, @granddesignspod on Twitter and @granddesignspodcast on Instagram [00:49:33]

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