Grand Designs Podcast – Episode 13 – Sports Apologies Transcript

Announcer:                        00:00                     You’re listening to the Podcast Detroit network. Visit for more information.

Jerry:                                     00:20                     This is Grand Designs Podcast with DJ and Jerry Grand. Where we link the chains of reason of sports, politics and culture.

DJ:                                          00:36                     Welcome to the Grand Designs Podcast. I’m DJ Grand and I’m here with my brother, Jerry.

Jerry:                                     00:41                     Hello.

DJ:                                          00:42                     And also with Ryan temporarily.

Ryan:                                     00:45                     Sorry guys. Hey

DJ:                                          00:47                     and uh, just to let you know how to get a hold of us, Uh, our website is You can email us at granddesignspodcast@Yahoo. Um, you can follow us @granddesignspodcast on Instagram and @granddesignspod on Twitter. And now you can find us on iTunes as well as YouTube and Facebook. Just look up grand designs podcast. Today, we’re going to be talking about who owes an apology to whom, whether uh, uh, the athletes owe the fans and apology at all for bad play or a lot whole other issues.

Jerry:                                     01:28                     Roughly a week ago, uh, the Tampa Bay lightening exited the Stanley Cup playoffs and they were the first team to do so by being swept in the first round after having the best seed and they tied the best season with the Red Wings and in doing so, their organization, Tampa Bay put out an apology, a press release, a statement to the fans, basically saying, we know what you’re going through. We’re sorry, we can’t figure it out. We can’t explain it. Some people are taking it as they pretty much told the fans, they took the fans being angry out and that Tampa Bay, as an organization, owed the fans more than just this, but an apology because the expectation was Stanley Cup or bust.

DJ:                                          02:07                     Well, I think that we’ve got to go on the word or focus on the word owe. I mean they, they haven’t right to apologize. They feel bad for losing when they thought they should have gone further, fine. Great. But as far as owning them an apology, I don’t think anything was owed at all.

Jerry:                                     02:24                     To the fans?

DJ:                                          02:25                     To anybody. I think, I don’t think the fans are, I don’t think it the word owe is, I mean my amount of respect saying that that’s what we failed. Okay, we’re sorry, but it’s not an where they didn’t have to do it

Jerry:                                     02:38                     What about that person, that’s just a dedicated, they, they live and die with their club. Did they lose? They wear it on their sleeve. They’re colors and they took that exit hard.

DJ:                                          02:51                     That’s fine.

Jerry:                                     02:52                     Do they owe them an apology?

DJ:                                          02:54                     I Would say no. I would say they don’t owe them an apology at all. In fact, the contract basically is you pay for a season tickets and you watch a game. Nothing is guaranteed wins or not guarantee they can’t be. So how and when you fail, you cannot be expected to owe an apology for losing. that is.

Jerry:                                     03:14                     It almost goes back to, it’s kind of just like when the Wings who they tied the record with, they, if I’m not mistaken, that you’re lost in the Stanley Cup final to the Devils. I believe they got swept out in the final. That was a record breaking year.

DJ:                                          03:27                     I think so.

Jerry:                                     03:28                     And even in doing that and they went to the Family Cup finals. The Wing’s fan here were just upset A,, cause (of) the record that the at the time was the best regular season record obviously won the president’s trophy and then they get swept out cause they went through the first three rounds. It wasn’t even a competition, but when they got to the finals, they got swept in the fans here didn’t take it too good. And the Tampa Bay fans are taking it the same way. They want to know why they want to hear, hey we’re sorry, then go as planned. And that’s pretty much what the statement did. I just didn’t think that the Tampa Bay lightning should even did that. They did is their right. They can do that. But it happens. There’s gotta be a winner and a loser. And for the first time ever in the Stanley Cup history, both one seeds lost in the first round.

DJ:                                          04:11                     Does Calgary, then on the other side owe there are fans an apology? I don’t think losing demands that you owe them an apology. You don’t owe them anything actually. I mean, all they owe them is a, is a, a good hockey game or games that we’re talking about the playoffs and that’s it. There’s no, you can’t demand outcome on the competition.

Jerry:                                     04:30                     Well that just it, there’s going to be a winner and a loser. It just so happened that this time and yeah, the Calgary fans were upset, but the Flames themselves, the organization did not issue a press release explaining, hey, we’re sorry. Um, unlike what the Timid Bay organization did.

DJ:                                          04:44                     What about the players?

Jerry:                                     04:46                     They themselves among the players in Stamkos, Kucherov who got suspended. Uh, some of the fans, the more the press, not the fans are saying they owe an explanation and, or an apology for their effort, the way they went out in the first round, it just shouldn’t have happened. How they were dominating teams in the regular season and they were, and that was a common thread that Tampa Bay is going to walk through the playoffs. Not what happened.

DJ:                                          05:10                     Well, they can give excuses, but I don’t think it’s owed. I think my opinion is it of it they focus too much on that record. And it took most of their energy away. If we go back to 1993 Pittsburgh Penguins, they were about to three peat and they cared so much about setting the NHL Record for most consecutive wins at the end of the season. I think it was 17 at the time that all their energy was focused on that and they ended up losing the second round of the New York islanders. It’s the same thing. They didn’t owe anyone an apology.

Jerry:                                     05:38                     Similar thing happened in Detroit back when Datsyuk, Zetterberg played. It was a couple of years ago, maybe four, they had a 26 a home game, unbeaten streak, and they were looking good and the all the fans were Stanley Cup, we’re going to win. We’re going to ace through it. Uh, it didn’t happen that way. They look sluggish from that point on and I think you’re right. They put all the energy towards that streak and after they meet it or met it, they just all went away. Something like Michigan State, they slayed the dragon with Duke. And after doing that they just look flat. They just couldn’t come out against Texas Tech like did against Duke. They were almost like drained. So I think that’s happened to the Lightening. They just got drained from that a record. They, they didn’t even beat it, they tied it, they came out in the first round and yeah, they were up three nothing in the first game they them I, I’m just guessing here but maybe they thought it was, it was going to be his first round walk. Three nothing game one. But for some reason after that point they just got, it wasn’t the same team.

DJ:                                          06:35                     They lost their focus.

Jerry:                                     06:36                     So that, that’s where I would ask do the players now owe, individually, to the fans who paid again, who paid all that money, bought their jerseys, all the memorabilia, basically supporting them financially.

DJ:                                          06:50                     I don’t even think they owe them effort. I mean it was nice of them to give effort, but it’s not owed to them. If anyone who they owe an apology to, it’d be to management it to be to their employers because they are paying the salary, not the fans. And so if, if there is an apology owed and I would question that, but if there is one, the, I would say the players owe it to the management for not giving the proper effort or following the game plan. I don’t think it’s it’s owed to any of the fans.

Jerry:                                     07:18                     We’ve used the restaurant industry as a comparison to where the player, the fans say they pay, they pay the player salary and we said they don’t. An example is when you go to a restaurant, the we, when we go in there to Mcdonald’s or whatever restaurant, we don’t pay their salary. Now in the same context, we go to a restaurant, do we expect good service? And if we don’t get it, do they owe us an apology for that service? That was bad.

DJ:                                          07:44                     I wouldn’t say it’s owed. If they want to keep with customer service up, they would do it on their own because they want to. But I wouldn’t say it’s, owed. It is in both. In both the restaurant and in the sports, your options are to no longer participate, to no longer buy season tickets, no longer buy team merchandise. No longer watch the games. That’s your option. Don’t invest your time or money in it anymore. But as far as an apology goes, it’s not owed. It’s nice maybe. Maybe it was nice that Tampa Bay did that, but it wasn’t obligated. It wasn’t owed. It wasn’t necessary.

Jerry:                                     08:20                     There’s always a breaking point where a fan says, I’m done. I hear a lot of fans with their Lions free now. I personally do not believe them for one second. There’s still into the team. They root for the team. They get angry when they lose. They may say they don’t care, but they do. Uh, but that fan who just cares so much, they that, that passion as if they’re playing for the team as if they’re working for the organization. These are the people who think that these players and the organization, GM, executive vice president, owe them, an explanation to why we did not win the whole thing and only one team wins it. So now I’m hearing that the other 29 teams or however many teams are in the league, all apologies now.

DJ:                                          09:01                     To me it’s like a drug, drug addiction. That fan you’re talking about that cares so much. You need to learn moderation and there’s a proper (way) because if you care so much that it affects your life that much. The problem is with you not with the team.

Jerry:                                     09:16                     I agree. I find this to be just a coincidence. As I’m coming home from work today starting to prepare for the podcast, listen to sports radio as far as talk and there was a fan who called up and said to the host of the talk show that he owed the Pistons his support. Now for those watching basketball or have (not) the Pistons have not been doing a very good job.

DJ:                                          09:37                     Do you mean Pistons fans owe their support to the Pistons?

Jerry:                                     09:43                     The Pistons, yes. Every one of the Piston’s fans owe ther support to him. He called in and told the talk show you as a Detroit-er, living in this city, you owe the organization your support. It’s almost like I took it as this guy was trying to say when the President was elected in whether you liked him or not, he’s in the office. You must respect him and do his, he wishes because he’s got the office, he was coming from that point that you owe the Pistons, your support. And right now the pistons are not giving an effort. It’s almost a joke.

DJ:                                          10:08                     I think that’s apples and oranges. I don’t think you may owe the President respect because he is your President, but it’s not the same as you. owing your respect to your team. If you’re a Detroit fan or you’re a resident of Detroit.

Jerry:                                     10:21                     So do we all our local sports team, uh, that the support do we have to support? I mean this guy basically came out and said, you owe organization support.

DJ:                                          10:30                     To me, it’s a morality issue. Morality is about choice. I mean in Layman’s terms, morality is a guide for our choices and actions. And if you take away choice, if you say, I, I am obligated to do something

Jerry:                                     10:45                     It’s immoral,

DJ:                                          10:45                     you are taking away the morality of the situation. And to me there’s the problem. There’s no free will involved anymore. I am forced to do something. Whether you like it or not.

Jerry:                                     10:54                     This was brought up because the radio announcer, he’s been saying, well I’m going back two months when the Pistons at the time weren’t even the playoffs. And he was telling, he was advocating tanking in, we’ve talked about shows where losses or wins don’t mean anything anymore, but he was advocating tank it. Get Zion Williamson have a better season. And what his point was now was he’s upset because the Pistons to playoffs and they’re going to get swept out and they’re going to get a mediocre pick. And what are they go next year, say mediocre, same result it will. They’re in this, they’re spinning their wheels in mud kind of thing. And that’s when the caller called up and said he was almost, I’m done. I don’t owe them anything. I owe them nothing. This is a radio host to the Pistons and I kind of agree with him. I guess he doesn’t own, he doesn’t own a darn thing.

DJ:                                          11:41                     Kind of like playing it both ways. There is saying that, uh, they have to do their best and apologize if they don’t, but then they have to tank it to and do their worst to get a high draft pick. That’s playing both ways.

Jerry:                                     11:55                     Yes it is. And I kind of and I, in a way, kind of understand that if the Pistons would have tanked it, they, they would have had a chance. I think the first top three picks in the NBA draft are, are game changers. You get this game changer. And again, it could be a bust so it isn’t guaranteed they have a better chance for next season. But now with being the, I think 18 pick overall the, the picks now so watered down in the next year’s NBA draft that the complaint is, they’re not going to really get a good enough player.

DJ:                                          12:23                     That doesn’t matter to me at the end does not justify the means. So it doesn’t matter to me.

Jerry:                                     12:27                     It kind of got off topic though. But I agree. But getting back to the, uh, uh, apologies, now I’m going to give you some individual athletes. Now, some of these, I’m going to tell you right off the bat what I think, and then you can go in to what you think as far as do they owe, the individual athlete, do they own the fan, the press? Who Do they owe Apology? And then we start off with Tiger Woods. He, uh, went down, uh, I think about 10 years ago. I had an affair. Just went, you just tanked it.

DJ:                                          12:54                     More than one

Jerry:                                     12:54                     for his golf game. Correct, affairs. Does he owe his fans? We’re not talking about his wife because I believe his wife, yet he owes, that’s personal. We shouldn’t be getting in and telling him about his personal, what he owes his wife, but the fans does he owe his fans? He owe Nike, a big sponsor. And he had more than just one sponsor, does he owe them an apology for that action.

DJ:                                          13:16                     Well, there’s two questions there. One is to fans and the other as a sponsor, if anything, it would be to the sponsor because that is partially paying his salary. I would question it, but maybe that one, as far as the fans go, he owes them absolutely nothing. Um, it comes from a false sense of entitlement that just because you’re following them that you owe, that Tiger owes us an apology. I, uh, the premise is wrong because you’re accepting the premise that all athletes are role models and I don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think, I don’t think you should be a role model if it doesn’t necessarily make you a role model. If you are an athlete.

Jerry:                                     13:53                     In his absence, the PGA tour suffered in viewership, this last masters it was record breaking because he was in contention whenever he wasn’t contention, the rating spiked. So when he was out of contention and when he was, didn’t even show up for these golf tournaments cause he was getting his what head back together. The PGA and the viewership just tanked it. So does he owe the PGA because he basically he’s what attracts the viewer,t the TV dealer.

DJ:                                          14:19                     If I run with that premise, that’s the means he also owes the Golf Channel an apology. He also owes the major networks in apology

Jerry:                                     14:27                     advertising.

DJ:                                          14:27                     I just think that’s horse hockey. I don’t think he owes them anything along that lines.

Jerry:                                     14:32                     I agree. Alex Rodriguez, A-Rod, he played for the Yankees, played for the Mariners. He uh, got, uh, I think it could be wrong. BACO it could be a different one, but he had, were a pharmaceutical gentlemen, created a pill, a steroid for him. It was secret. Then he went out and actually recruited other players to take this steroid, Performance enhancing drug and then he came out and he apologized to everybody. I right off the bat, I don’t think he owes his fans anything, but I do think he owed the Steinbrenner’s the owners an apology because they paid a salary. He was cheating them, not the fans, not majorly baseball.

DJ:                                          15:13                     Like I said earlier, if anything else, he owes management, which I would say Steinbrenner’s management, he doesn’t, owe the fans a thing. Once again, the false premise of someone being a role model, there’s your problem. When you accept someone who is not of high character as a role model and it comes crashing down to reality. Whose fault is it? That person who was the pseudo role model or the person who was looking up to them? I say it’s the fault of the person who was looking up to them. You chose the wrong person to look up to.

Jerry:                                     15:39                     Who’s the fool, the fool or the person following the fool.

DJ:                                          15:42                     It goes along (those) lines. You’re right. It goes along the lines of, uh, define what a hero is because I don’t think hitting a ball that comes at comes at you 90 miles an hour makes you a hero. I don’t think skating with a stick and shooting a puck into a net makes you a hero. I don’t think dribbling a ball and putting it into a rim 10 feet high makes you a hero. I think they’re… They have the wrong definition of what a hero is. And so when they, that person ends up becoming human, doing something human, all of a sudden it’s bad. They owe us an apology. I totally disagree. They’re not heroes

Jerry:                                     16:17                     For some reason. I don’t know what, Press media. Our sports figures are heroes. I don’t know. I don’t get that when it should be firefighters, first responders, uh, astronauts. The ones that lived to dangerously, they should be the heroes. Not, I agree with that. With the athletes. Now this next person here, it’s a little bit different. Kobe Bryant, now he had an affair, but this affair was more, he got out, he was up for criminal charges and a rape in Colorado. So in this situation, yes, I his wife, it’s personal. The criminal part that kind of takes it to a whole new…does it take it to a different level? I’ll ask you that first.

DJ:                                          16:53                     Of course it does, but that doesn’t neccessarily mean that he owes the fans an apology for it. Yes. It takes it to a, I mean that’s like saying because Plaxico Burgess shot himself in the leg. Am I correct? When he was on the Giants, He was from Michigan State and went to New York giants. But because he was in a criminal case, he owes the fans an apologies. No, and just cause it’s criminal

Jerry:                                     17:13                     only because I only say that only because it was a rape accusation. Now he was acquitted. He got, he got off. So technically I guess he didn’t do it, but he was accused of rape. It’s was, I want to say a behavior, but the lack of respect for women. It goes, it went beyond just a fan. I completely, he doesn’t know the fan, but

DJ:                                          17:29                     he may owe society something if he was found guilty just as someone who murdered somebody

Jerry:                                     17:34                     and he wasn’t, So

DJ:                                          17:35                     just as someone who murdered somebody, owes society a debt, but that debt does not transfer over to fans and I think it’s two separate issues. Totally.

Jerry:                                     17:44                     I agree. Now again, we’ve got another one for PED’s. Mark McGwire except this one here, I’m going to go with Mark McGwire. When he was doing it, Major League baseball fully were aware of what was happening. They did not care. They, a matter of fact, turn their head because the ratings are through the roof, what him and Sosa we’re doing. As a matter of fact, a band drug now, Adderall was not band when he was on his home run binge. He had it above his locker for everyone to see.

DJ:                                          18:14                     We talked about this in our earlier podcasts. I think the reason the, the major league baseball overlooked it is because of the earlier strike and that tank, the ratings. And this was the first thing, the first series of events that brought the, the ratings backup that put interest back into baseball

Jerry:                                     18:33                     I heard as a reference to a how Babe Ruth saved major league baseball after the Black Soxs. It’s the same thing here for McGuire and Sosa saved baseball, brought the viewers back and because the viewers came back huge and just, just ungodly numbers. Baseball where they were seeing record attendance at where ever McGuire Sosa visited these parks they were selling out. They turned an eye knowing full well they were taking it. Then when the reporter brought it up some how from the camera, it became, oh my, the rules no are different. Suspensions are up 82 games even a year, the second time around. So McGuire, I don’t think he owes anyone. I think Major League Baseball owes an apology,

DJ:                                          19:13                     but for not cause it was, I think they started making it, um, a performance enhancing drugs, illegal in baseball like in 1993 and that was before the first of the strike. So they never enforced it. And the problem is if they, if they had forced it all along but they didn’t, they would be major baseball to be on the moral high ground. But because they didn’t, and they allowed it to happen just for the ratings, that’s why they were wrong.

Jerry:                                     19:37                     I used the Adderall as an example. It was not on their banned substance list. It is now. So they knew what McGwire was doing. And then all of a sudden when the issue was brought forward by the media, then it became a, well, now, now they put it on the banned list and then the, the suspensions were just increased enormously. The next one is Pete Rose. And I think he owes the fans an apology for gambling on the Reds.

DJ:                                          20:04                     Why?

Jerry:                                     20:06                     Look when you go in, if you’re playing for that, you’re coaching that team. Uh, you know, the pitchers, especially if you’re, uh, I want to say this the right way. If Pete Rose was betting on the Reds to win, okay, he’s got, he’s loyal. He’s really thinking he’s team to win. But when it’s to lose because you’re controlling the bullpen and you know who’s not going to go tonight because of rest. I think he owes the fan cause he’s manipulating because of a bet that he made against the Reds. And there was evidence that he bet against the Reds. I got a problem with a person that I would go and pay to watch him play, be it coach or whatever. And he’s got a bet against it for the team to lose.

DJ:                                          20:48                     That doesn’t necessarily means he was trying to make them lose. So let’s go right there. If he was actually trying to make them lose, yes, he was morally wrong. But that doesn’t mean he owes the fans an apology. Once again, that would be to management, to his boss, his employer, that’s who he owes the apology to

Jerry:                                     21:05                     not make them lose. It’s almost like these, uh, sports, uh, DraftKings and Fanduel when they were winning the first couple of weeks because the insiders had numbers that nobody else had. So he goes, he knows that this pitcher, this reliever is not going in the game tonight. He’s because he’s, he knows that end because of that, he’s going to bet the odds that they’re going to lose tonight. I just have a huge problem. And yeah if I’m paying to go watch you play and I’m not paying you to go bet for you to lose that. That was just,

DJ:                                          21:36                     but if he’d still tried the best, did he do this as a coach or a player?

Jerry:                                     21:40                     Coach

DJ:                                          21:40                     That’s what I thought if he tried his best to still coached for a win and he just thought, odds are we’re going to lose and bet on it. It may have been wrong to bet on the game, but that doesn’t mean he owes the p the, the fans and apologize.

Jerry:                                     21:52                     I’d have a hard time.

DJ:                                          21:53                     It’s sort of like insider trading.

Jerry:                                     21:55                     Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. Cause if he’s got $1 million on a loss, I have a hard time believing he’s going to put the lineup in that he’s going to pull this win out.

DJ:                                          22:03                     But that doesn’t mean he did it. I agree I, he’s vulnerable when he does that. Absolutely. But if he just bet and then still tried to win. So what?

Jerry:                                     22:12                     Now the next one, Michael Vick, dog fighting. Now I have dogs. A lot of people have dogs, you know. So this one I took a little bit differently and I yeah, for that behavior, I think he owed society an apology. This is what I’m going to say yes to

DJ:                                          22:27                     But society is different than fans. I mean cause it’s the criminal activity. Absolutely. He owes a debt to society. Fine. But does he owe anything to the fans? Because you want to hear his apology to as those dogs, those poor dogs that suffer for that. That’s who he owes the apology to. Yes. They are not human. Yes. They will not understand the apology. But if anything, if any entity is, is owed an apology, it would be those dogs. I don’t think he almost the fans anything

Jerry:                                     22:51                     or the owner.

DJ:                                          22:52                     What did, what did the dog fighting have to do with him playing football?

Jerry:                                     22:56                     He wasn’t focused on football. He was focused on something that was, not good.

DJ:                                          23:02                     well then If that’s the case, then any side business for any professional athlete is bad because they’re not focusing the focus on the business and not, I don’t think that’s a legitimate argument

Jerry:                                     23:12                     that has been brought up that even the good businesses by taking their focus away so they own apology to the fans because they were worrying about business here and not the game.

DJ:                                          23:23                     So when you work for your employer and then you go have a side business because your focus on a side business and not your primary employment, you owe your primary employer an apology?

Jerry:                                     23:34                     Some would say yes because you need to be loyal to them and you, you, you’re working, you’re employed for them and they are the primary work. The secondary one should suffer and not them.

DJ:                                          23:42                     As long as it’s not happening on eight hours, 10 hours for the primary employment, you don’t owe anything. I’m an individualist and you’re basically coming from the premise by saying I owe them an apology for my off time. You’re saying I owe the collective that I have no individual rights that I, I’m a basically a slave to the employer. I totally disagree with that. They have every right to have their side businesses. What he, like I said, as far as Michael Vick goes, he owes those dogs and apology.

Jerry:                                     24:11                     I agree. Uh, Michael Phelps, Now, this one. I’ll just say no it’s for marijuana, after he won his record breaking gold medal in the Olympics, he got caught a party. Someone, the iPhone nowadays record everything. He got busted with a bong. He came out and he apologized, I think to everybody because he did something that I don’t think he was remorseful. He was just sorry he got caught doing it.

DJ:                                          24:33                     I don’t even think he needed to be sorry. It’s his business. If he, if the marijuana would adversely affect his play, he would have lost the metals. It would have hurt him and he didn’t hurt any fans. So I don’t think he owed anybody other than maybe if he had sponsors. I don’t know if he did or not

Jerry:                                     24:52                     oh, he does.

DJ:                                          24:52                     No, I don’t know if you did at the time. And if he did there, there are sort of like employers and if they have an agreement that you don’t do that, then owes him an apology. But I don’t think he owes a fan. I’m not one iota of an apology.

Jerry:                                     25:06                     This was at the height of his record breaking Olympic gold medals. So he had many, many sponsors. The next one, uh, MSU is Michigan State University’s Tom Izzo. Uh, the media went crazy that he did not apologize for how he berated. I don’t even say berate. I want to say how he coached a player got on his face.

DJ:                                          25:24                     He yelled at him.

Jerry:                                     25:26                     Yeah, he yelled at them and look, and we were in sports. We got yelled at a lot, a lot worse, and we were just told that it makes you a man. It makes you better. But yet they they went off that he owes his player Aaron Henry an apology when they talk to the player, he said, no, I thrive off that, that intensity, that correction. So he actually liked Tom Izzo for doing that. And I got to agree with Tom Izzo because he did come out in the press conference and he refused to give the apology. So I gotta give him credit for that. And he even said, you know, to the media, you guys crack me up whenever try whenever anyone tries to hold anyone accountable, you make up all these excuses. I tell you what, If I was your boss and you wrote a bad article, I’d hold you accountable. So I kind of agree with them. They’re 100%

DJ:                                          26:07                     I totally agree with him. He was absolutely right. And once again he said exactly what I’m saying. He doesn’t owe him an apology. He doesn’t owe MSU fans an apology for the insensitivity of watching someone be yelled at. My Gosh, grow up.

Jerry:                                     26:22                     I agree. The next one is Andy Pettitte. That’s the PED’s. I think it’s the same thing we talked before with the other major league baseball players. I don’t think he owes anyone but the Yankees and apology for that, not even baseball.

DJ:                                          26:33                     I agree.

Jerry:                                     26:34                     Uh, the next one, Mike Tyson for biting the ear off of Evander Holyfield now that when I’m going to say yes, he owed all of those people who came for that fight and they paid and those tickets around ringside are thousands of dollars and he goes and basically just, I can’t recall, it was early in the fight bites the guy’s ear off fights over. They went, I paid for a boxing match, not for someone to do some savage act and bites his ear off. So I think if I didn’t, but if I had bought a ticket, it doesn’t matter the value, I’m just brought up that the ringside are very expensive for ringside seats and I just spent this money yet. What are you doing? You fool.

DJ:                                          27:11                     All right, what’s wrong with that premise. I think it’s flawed. So a knockout in the first five seconds. So he owes you an apology because you paid that much money for ringside

Jerry:                                     27:21                     That’s boxing. I paid for that and yes, I paid to see the guy. I didn’t pay for you to come and see. I didn’t want to, I’m not paying to see you bite someone’s ear off that it’s not boxing. I came and tell you what it is. I paid to yes, see Mike Tyson knock him out because at that time he was knocking everybody out and yes, that’s what sold the tickets.

DJ:                                          27:42                     But your argument was that it was, it was too short. I didn’t pay.

Jerry:                                     27:47                     Okay, let me go back then. I mean the short, because it was shorter than game, whether it was 15th round biting his ear is an act that is just, it’s, it’s savage. It’s not even a part of boxing. So

DJ:                                          27:59                     I agree with that,

Jerry:                                     27:59                     so I made a mistake by saying it was early. Um, because yes, that first one I’m paying to see him knock ’em out in the first round in the first 30 seconds. Yes, I’m paying for that. I am not paying for him to bite his ear off in the first second, 13th or 15th round.

DJ:                                          28:12                     Well then that would go with any illegal act, tripping, hit below the belt. I mean I don’t think an apology is owed to the fans. I want to emphasize that he owes Evander Holyfield an apology for bitting his ear off. Absolutely

Jerry:                                     28:27                     not quite

DJ:                                          28:27                     but not to the fan

Jerry:                                     28:29                     isn’t quite as savage, but Marchand for licking the hockey players that just the behavior that, yeah, he owes an apology for such behavior.

DJ:                                          28:38                     To whom? Does he owe an apology to the people that he licked? Absolutely, but the fans, no.

Jerry:                                     28:42                     The player that he was the player that he did that to to start, but if I’m coming to watch a hockey game, I’m not coming to watch you lick other players.

DJ:                                          28:52                     I well, I blame the coach and I blame the culture. The culture says you should be a thug. You should act like that in hockey now in that context, you should act that way, whatever to get on the players’ skin. I hear that all the time. When I played, I heard that and I think that’s the culture. It’s the culture is fault. You don’t owe…He doesn’t owe, Marchand, I don’t like the guy as a player. I don’t know him as a person, but I do not like him as a player, but he doesn’t owe anyone other than the people he licked in apology. Nobody.

Jerry:                                     29:23                     I’m going to agree with you there. I agree. Tim Tebow, he lost to Ole Miss in ’08. The thats a football game. I don’t think he owes, anyone the alumni,

DJ:                                          29:32                     well he came out and apologized because that particular apology was because they were supposed to be undefeated that season and he lost that game and he came out apologizing for it. I mean, just to give you some definition on what happened to that, it’s why

Jerry:                                     29:48                     It’s hard to go undefeated. Um, now Mr Tebow was very religious and maybe he took that personally and that’s where he felt he owe them an apology. But it’s not easy to do that. And when you’re at that time in Florida, was that good. Look, these teams, you got a bullseye on your back. It’s kind of like Michigan State is jealous of Michigan because where ever Michigan goes, that’s the other team’s Superbowl. Michigan State does not like hearing that.

DJ:                                          30:13                     I equate this to what we’ve started talking this out about, about Tampa Bay on an apology. I don’t think Tebow for the loss, just like Tamps Bay lost owed the apology. If he tried his best and and the outcome wasn’t what it was expected. It’s not his fault. It’s the way the cookie crumbles. The way the dice fell.

Jerry:                                     30:31                     This next one may or may not be tricky. Olympian Marion Jones. Now this is a PED one but it’s for the Olympics. So does she owe the American citizens who were, I don’t even know if they cheered for her. I’d have to say the Sponsors, does she owe the country her apology for doing that?

DJ:                                          30:48                     Do uh, army men when they’re off fighting and they take drugs, do they owe anyone an apology for that?

Jerry:                                     30:57                     I don’t know.

DJ:                                          30:58                     That’s for the country’s

Jerry:                                     30:59                     That’s war though.

DJ:                                          31:00                     No, but that’s for the country. I’m trying to stick on that premise cause she, you’re saying she played for the country? Well, those guys are fighting for the country.

Jerry:                                     31:07                     Yes.

DJ:                                          31:08                     So do they own apology If they take drugs?

Jerry:                                     31:10                     That’s life and death.

DJ:                                          31:11                     But that’s not the question. It’s irrelevant. Do they owe apology for taking drugs? They’re working for the country.

Jerry:                                     31:18                     Obviously, they don’t because that’s a whole different.

DJ:                                          31:19                     They don’t.

Jerry:                                     31:20                     and they’re surviving

DJ:                                          31:21                     at the most shoulder sponsors and, and I guess she paid for it because she lost her medals. So that’s, that’s all she owed that I was turning her medals in owe apologies to anybody.

Jerry:                                     31:34                     I agree. Janet Jackson for the, uh, a wardrobe malfunction

DJ:                                          31:38                     during the Superbowl.

Jerry:                                     31:39                     Correct.

DJ:                                          31:39                     It’s the only reason it is in context, I thank her for it. I don’t think she owes a single apology to anybody, I wish you were showed the other side.

Jerry:                                     31:47                     You might want to thank Timberlake. He was the one that did that.

DJ:                                          31:50                     It doesn’t matter. She, she was in on it. And I thank that both for it.

Jerry:                                     31:54                     And the last one on the list is the cubs fans, Steve Bartman. Now, this poor guy. I know. I think the cubs fans owe him an apology. Uh, I don’t think he owed an apology whatsoever, but if I’m not mistaken, didn’t he apologize?

DJ:                                          32:05                     He came out and apologize because he was made to feel bad because he ruined their, I think it was in the championship series. I don’t even think it was World Series.

Jerry:                                     32:12                     Yup.

DJ:                                          32:12                     And he made that he was made to feel bad because he ruined their chances to break that curse.

Jerry:                                     32:16                     He was more than made him. He was, he moved out. It was bad. They ostracized that poor guy. He didn’t deserve what he got. That’s why the fans owe him an apology that he hasn’t owed them one.

DJ:                                          32:25                     Oh, absolutely. A Foul Ball is, is fair play. I mean it was…I’m not mistaken, he didn’t reach over into fair play that was in foul territory when he hit it. Right?

Jerry:                                     32:37                     Correct and there were like eight other fans trying to go forward to, so.

DJ:                                          32:41                     That’s fair game. That’s fair game. I mean that’s the way it, that’s the rules of play and then you get the ball, you get to keep it in the fall territory.

Jerry:                                     32:48                     That was just a cub. Fans being poor losers.

DJ:                                          32:50                     If he did in fact reach over into fair territory, then I would say he may owe the cubs organization, but not the fan.

Jerry:                                     32:58                     That’s player interference fan interference, there is a rule for that now, but that wasn’t the case. Now our last one is a little bit interesting and I kind of liked this is did Steve Yzerman old Detroit, the fans, to return? Now this was real interesting because after the Lightening lost and was out Yzerman became a free agent, go anywhere he wants. There were rumors that he was going to go to New York for the president of operations job and in doing so, it just ignited this debate that he owed Detroit to come here when in fact at the time, it’s about a week ago, there wasn’t even a job open at the time for him to come here in any capacity, be it senior vice president, vice president, GM, Scout, whatever. It was not there. Now listen to talk show these fans one fan that he was going to burn Joe Louis down. I think he meant Little Caesars arena, but in doing so, they basically said that Yzerman owed them. He had to come here. He, he lost his choice. The radio host actually said if Yzerman did choose to go to New York, he would have been upset. He used the word pissed. I’d be pissed at Yzerman. A job wouldn’t have been offered to him from the Wings and he takes it somewhere else and they were upset with him. So I found that to be interesting. Now before that, I probably should I start with this? Look, he belongs here. He is the captain and he is known for, yeah, it’s a perfect fit almost. But at the same time, some of these fans, I don’t know if they have a delusion or illusions of grandier, but they think the cup’s coming here automatically, and that’s not the case, but did Yzerman owe this city. Are these fans to be the GM

DJ:                                          34:32                     First I want to say if it, Steve Yzerman wanted to come here and not go to Detroit, I mean not go to New York and take the lesser GM job over the president job of the Rangers. Good for him. He did what he wanted to do. It was his choice. He wanted to be with family, good for him, but as far as him, Owing, anyone to come here, he didn’t owe anyone a damn thing he could have. He should have been able to go wherever he wants. It doesn’t matter if at one time he wore a Detroit Red Wings Jersey that’s retired, that’s hanging up in the rafters now. It’s no longer part of, of the current situation. He didn’t owe a single fan anything. Not even an explanation to why he would go would have went to the Rangers.

Jerry:                                     35:14                     Again, I’m glad he’s here as a GM, but I really wanted to see him take the president operations job only to see what the city, the reaction would be because they literally expected Yzerman to apologize to them because he didn’t come to Detroit. Even though the position wasn’t here, it wasn’t offered at the time and the Wings look, they created this position to get him here. They did not want to see him, which was a wise move. They didn’t want to see Yzerman go to any other team, but had the Wings chose not to do that. They’re happy with Holland. I think he stll had a couple of years left on his GM contract. If Yzerman took the New York Ranger job, wouldn’t owe anyone here that apology because he didn’t come to the Wings?

DJ:                                          35:55                     I don’t think so. I mean, here’s some speculation on my part. I think that whole Ranger president thing was set up to make the, to draw interest for Detroit to say I could end up being…Yzerman could end up being going to the rangers so you guys put our, decide where you’re going to do so lighting a fire under their butt. It’s all speculation. I have no evidence of this. It’s a guess on my part, but I think it was what helped get him to solidify to come to Detroit.

Jerry:                                     36:19                     Whoever did that well played because I think he was, he was known for being a good GM. He did. They are bringing up a team Canada, how he built that team, how he built the Lightening into a winner. So if that was the case and they made Detroit act, uh, well played, I was more interested in the fact that, yeah, look, I want Yzerman to come here. I’m happy he’s here. But these fans, they literally, and it went back to when he first resigned with the Lightning and he was, uh, uh, the advisor. They were saying he was already working for the Wings. He was coming here. It was a done deal. Now he’s done with Tampa Bay. He’s coming to Detroit and this is back in the season. Just started when he resigned. So again, I bring this up in the fact that if he didn’t come here, I just find it interesting how these fans just felt, he was compelled under no circumstances could he go anywhere else. This was the only place he had to go.

DJ:                                          37:09                     Once again, that’s takes the morality out of it. He no longer has a choice just because at one time he wore a Red Wing jersey, he has to come here. There’s no moral morality in that. There’s no choice. There’s no obligation, no moral obligation whatsoever for him to have come here for anything, for any money, for less money, for more money. It should be up to him. And if he wanted to come here, great, good for him. But I don’t think he owes the Red Wing base, fan base anything.

Jerry:                                     37:38                     I agree with you 100% but there are some people who just disagree with you 100%. that he owed this city. He had to come here.

DJ:                                          37:47                     That’s coming from a sense of entitlement that we’re entitled to him just cause it used to be the captain I, it’s almost making him a slave.

Jerry:                                     37:54                     That’s what,

DJ:                                          37:54                     because you don’t have a choice, you must come here that that is a form of slavery. So I totally, I think, I think that Detroit fans who did react that way, were wrong. And I think it was emotions. They were emotional because they’d loved when he brought those championships to the Red Wings and they wanted it back. And they want that, that love, that, the way they felt when he bought those championships to Detroit. They want to feel it again. I think there are coming from a place of emotion,

Jerry:                                     38:23                     I really wanted to see him not come to Detroit and taking another job only for the reaction of the fans. They would have gotten what they deserve for being so arrogant, thinking that he had to come here. There was no question. He had no choice in the matter. I agree with what you’re saying, but I again, I wanted to see it go the other way because these fans, I wanted to see this person burned down that uh, he said JLA but Little Caesers because they couldn’t play anymore. Um, they were saying they’re going to riot. That’s why I wanted to see, It didn’t happen. He’s in Detroit, so all worked out.

DJ:                                          38:53                     Mostly, I think that was, those were empty threats once again, come from emotion. And so therefore they just vented. Okay. So we’ve, you’ve been listening to the Grand Designs Podcast. Just to let you know where you can get a hold of us. Once again, our website is, our email is You can now get us at iTunes. You can subscribe there. You can subscribe at Youtube and on Facebook and you can also follow us on Instagram @GrandDesignsPodcast and you can follow us on Twitter @GrandDesignsPod. This is the Grand Designs Podcast. Who are you listening to?

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