Grand Designs Podcast – Episode 20 – Equality in Sports Revisited Transcript

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Jerry:                                     00:13                     This is Grand Designs Podcast with DJ and Jerry Grand where we link the chains of reason of sports, politics and culture.

DJ:                                          00:32                     Welcome to the Grand Design Podcast, episode 20. Uh, I’m DJ Grand and I’m with my brother Jerry.

Jerry:                                     00:49                     Greetings,

DJ:                                          00:50                     uh, today we’ll basically be revisiting an issue wee did an episode seven, we’re going to be talking about equality in sports. Uh, firstly let’s talk about dodge ball and how it’s supposedly dehumanizing.

Jerry:                                     01:02                     Yeah, that’s a little bit on the inequality. And I don’t know how in a sport you can have equality, uh, be at dodge ball or any sport because if everyone’s equal, no one’s gonna win. The score’s going to be tied. And then there’s no entertainment. And what’s the point of playing? Uh, but the dehumanizing part, I think they’re coming from, and I’m going into the Dodgeball movie, which is hilarious, where they pick on Winston. And he actually says, remember, kids pick the most smallest. I can’t quote the actor when I the worst, most whatever, unathletic kid. Uh, and pick on them, make sure the other team picks them. And then they show Winston with a pair of glasses getting just pulverized with the ball and he gets the kid who threw the ball gets, you know, congratulations. So, they’re saying that’s dehumanizing to Winston.

DJ:                                          01:43                     Well, a short sidetrack right away. I used to do that in baseball. I used to identify the worst, the weakest link out in the outfield. I’d try and hit it to the right fielder or…

Jerry:                                     01:53                     We were taught in CYO when you up to the bat to aim the bat back of the pitcher, like it was coming right back at him.

DJ:                                          01:59                     So, I kind of works in other sports too.

Jerry:                                     02:01                     Yes.

DJ:                                          02:01                     Well, anyways, as far as the, uh, to put this in context, this is from the Blaze from June 12th, 2019, “When you’re setting up an environment for students to learn and you introduced the idea that it’s okay to slam the ball at whomever you like, even if it’s with a soft ball. The intention is there,” according to Joy Butler, who is a professor of pedology and curriculum development at the University of British Columbia. She goes on, “When students think it’s okay because they’re being told it’s okay to do that. What do they learn? People say dodge ball being used as an outlet for aggression or catharsis. I suspect that this is where they’re learning it. Physical Education class should be an arena where teachers are helping students control their aggression and move on instead of expressing themselves in anger” unquote.

Jerry:                                     02:51                     The problem I have with that is I’ve always been taught, and I tell others that there’s a lot of relations to sports in life. And dodge ball, if you get knocked out, if you get slammed or you get hit in the face, it’s just the reason, you know, to get back up again and don’t quit. Just like in life, you’re going to get smacked in the face. Only in life. It’s a lot harder than dodgeball. I mean, you think about it’s a game. You get back up, winners and losers, you’re still alive. Uh, but there are some tragedies that’ll come in life that you’ve got to learn to cope with and get over. And I believe, really truly believe that playing sports teaches you that whole, it’s always said that this is life. This is not football, this is life. So she’s completely incorrect. I mean that’s just well as you would say psychobabble.

DJ:                                          03:31                     Well yeah. He goes on. And uh, in the same article he finishes out, by a annilating ones opponent and the quote “athletic and authoritative students ran the show when it comes to rules and tended to create their own teams and which allowed them to gang up on other students. The message is that it’s okay to hurt or dehumanize the other. The competition is about annihilating ones opponent. And the true definition of competition is between two evenly matched teams while kids stack their teams and they really enjoy beating up on the other team. What’s the enjoyment of that?” unquote.

Jerry:                                     04:05                     Look, I always enjoyed it at first cause I was little small growing up, uh, not getting picked. And then it was basically showing them what a mistake it was and that I was actually good. And then the next time I got picked. So you’ve got to go out there. If you really, that bothers you and you want to get picked, you’ve got to improve, you’ve got to go out and practice, you’re going to take some lumps. So again, and you can’t have no, an even team is not a good game because again, everyone’s equal. There’s not going to be a winner. I mean, I get good games. There are classic games, but that doesn’t mean both teams are even most of the time, um, the actual winner takes nothing to better team loses.

DJ:                                          04:40                     Sometimes that happens. I think they’re using the wrong term by equal. I think there wasn’t really mean is parity, which is…

Jerry:                                     04:45                     No, I agree in the NFL strives for that for, so everyone’s team has a chance to win. But at the end of the day, what they’ve been striving for parity and the Patriots winning so many, has there been parity?

DJ:                                          04:58                     Well, you can’t, in an ideal world. It would get as close to equal as possible, but that can’t always happen.

Jerry:                                     05:02                     If it was, if it was though, nobody would win.

DJ:                                          05:05                     Well from the USA Today, an article by Larry Alex Taunton. Uh, he quotes the Wall Street Journal’s Jeff Yang once said that dodgeball quote “is a systemized opportunity for bullies” unquote to target that weak. He further complained that while headshots were banned, crotch shots weren’t.

Jerry:                                     05:25                     Look that that happens pretty much every, I want to say every play, but when a plane, a safety gets hurt, cornerback, defensive cornerback in the NFL, next play, the quarterback’s going after that person. Going right after him to destroy him, to humiliate. I don’t know how many times did the announcers are bringing that up. How was it any different? And this is a professional athlete being embarrassed, not Winston.

DJ:                                          05:48                     That reminds me “The Longest Yard” when they let him through.

Jerry:                                     05:51                     Yeah.

DJ:                                          05:51                     And Burt Reynolds threw it right at him and hit him in the crotch.

Jerry:                                     05:54                     He didn’t do that again. Did he? He wasn’t the dirty part of that he was before that.

DJ:                                          05:59                     It also says, according to Fox News quote, “researchers argue that there is a hidden curriculum of dodgeball that reinforces the oppression of those perceived as weaker individuals for the exercise of violence and dominance.

Jerry:                                     06:13                     Look, dodge ball is no different than any other sport to where there’s going to be a dominance in a weaker team. And yes, the whole point is, I don’t know how many times I’ve heard, we didn’t step on the juggler. We left him in the game and they came back and won the game because we didn’t want to dehumanize or embarrass’em, they didn’t put there, they didn’t take them out, they didn’t go out and destroy them.

DJ:                                          06:32                     I think, I don’t agree with them, but I think their argument is that the weak don’t have, the nonathletic weak, don’t have the same chance against the athletic type. Now I was like you, I was always the smallest in the class, but that didn’t stop me because I was also athletic and I would play the game to win and I would use the ball as a defensive mechanism. I would block with the ball, so, I don’t see how, if you played the game correctly, even the weakest, the smallest could have a chance to win.

Jerry:                                     07:00                     They’re getting into psychology now to where look at that kid wants to win and he’s competitive, he’ll go against the better talent because at the end, going against a better talent, it’ll make him a better player. He may get smacked a few times, but he’ll block the ball and eventually after a year or two he’ll be the one that’s being picked and then now he’s the one that’s dehumanizing the other team. So it’s all about practicing getting better and some people are not athletic and it takes them time to learn, but anybody wants to learn to get better that they can. And I think these guys are just arguing for the lazy way out that they didn’t want to train and they didn’t want to practice.

DJ:                                          07:34                     Um, this is true. I’m trying to think. I read somewhere that dodge ball was not even listed as one of the most violent sports. Soccer was ahead of that. I mean there were, I mean it wasn’t even a top 10 as one of the most violent sports.

Jerry:                                     07:50                     I’ve seen some very gruesome soccer injuries. So yeah, I could get that. And this is probably one bit, I don’t think dodge ball is even in the class of a contact sport. You catch the ball, you get out of the way. Cannot have a problem?

DJ:                                          08:06                     I agree. And this is sort of like making everyone wear a helmet when they ride a bike. It’s not always necessary.

Jerry:                                     08:11                     Again, no, I completely agree. And I think this is just again psychobabble about dodge ball and it being dehumanizing. It’s a game. It’s like kickball. We played kickball a lot and you can kick the ball off of someone’s face. How’s that any different? Instead you’re using your foot, you’re not throwing it.

DJ:                                          08:28                     No, I agree. The point of the game is to win and that is what it should teach them. Teach them the skills necessary to win.

Jerry:                                     08:33                     Phys Ed class, from what I remember, it was more for exercise. It wasn’t about winning or losing. Yeah, it’s natural. I don’t care how you bring up kids. Kids are going to go out there and they want to compete. They want to win. They want to be the better one in any sport. They want to impress the teacher, impress the girl. They’re going to go out there and compete and yeah, there are going to be weaker ones. And they’re going to just have to learn. And in life, I mean, how many times have you heard about the geek who was in school and got picked on is now Bill Gates in a billionaire 10 times over. So where’s the equality there?

DJ:                                          09:03                     You can’t have total equality.

Jerry:                                     09:05                     I know, but this guy wants a quality in dodge ball. Where’s the quality of business?

DJ:                                          09:10                     Well, when we were growing up, we were in different classes, but in my class at Our Lady of Grace, when there was clearly a weaker team, the actual male gym teacher played on that weaker team and he was throwing strikes. I mean, don’t, we’re talking hard strikes. So, he kind of evened up that way. So there are ways. I’ve even seen on YouTube that there were, um, students versus teacher dodgeball. And I’ve seen those teachers actually whipped the ball towards them. So…

Jerry:                                     09:38                     Even in my class, I get it. That it’s a way to take out anger.

DJ:                                          09:42                     Yeah. So our second point of a conversation about equality in sports goes to, once again, transgender competitors. This is pretty much what we talked about in Episode Seven. Um, specifically there was a transgender hurler who won the national championship and uh, her name was a CeCe Tefer of the Franklin Pierce University, a college hurdler born male, but now competing as a female who last month won NCAAs Women’s national championship, taking the 400 meter hurdles by more than a second. Tefler, formerly known as Craig, as recently as January, 2018 ran with a division two school men’s track and field team Tefler started going by the name CeCe when competing with the men before transitioning to the women’s competition and Tefler became the New Hampshire school women’s track and field champion. ESPN interviewed Tefler on “Outside the Lines” and she quoted “If anything, me competing against a CISgender females is a disadvantage. According to her quote, “My body is going through so many medical implications. It’s going through biochemistry changes. So being on hormone replacement therapy results in muscle depletion, your muscles are deteriorating. You lose a lot of strength because testosterone is where you get your strength, your agility. So, I have to work twice as hard to keep that strength. If I slack day, then there’s three days set behind so I have to keep up all my workouts. I can’t drink, I can’t eat unhealthy or else it’s going to impact me harder.”

Jerry:                                     11:22                     What you just read it the same regiment for any athlete who trains.

DJ:                                          11:26                     I absolutely agree and that’s exactly what I was going to say, that it has nothing to do with her transitioning, that she wouldn’t have to work just as hard. I guarantee you Michael Phelps, who now for transitioned worked just as hard if he, would have to work just as hard if he fell behind.

Jerry:                                     11:42                     With his diet, with his training, with everything that that male said applied to Michael Phelps, you know, every athlete, those (athletes), especially the world class athletes and all the major sports, those guys train in the off season, maybe two weeks off or they’ll get time with their family and their back to lifting weights, running, whatever it may be for a aerobics to get their…Basketball players want endurance. Hockey for the same thing off ice training. That’s such a ridiculous (argument),

DJ:                                          12:07                     This is also from the Blaze from June 4th, 2019. Uh, “according to the website, Totalboy Sports, which research some of Tefler’s statistics as a male competitor. Tefler was an above average male hurdler. But as women’s hurdle are lower tough learned soon dominated the competition and became the top women’s competitor in the women’s 55 meter hurdles and the 55 meters sprint. NCAA has a policy for transgender athletes for years is legal under NCAA bylaws for a biological male to compete in the woman’s division, if that male has suppressed his test testosterone levels for one year. A guidance document issued by issue and published by the NCAA, took the stance that is not accurate to assume that a male who has transitioned to become a transgender female has an unfair advantage over a biological woman saying it is important not to over generalize.” In this instance. I think the NCAA is wrong.

Jerry:                                     13:03                     Oh absolutely. Cause I was going to say, apparently even with his testosterone replacement, he still running fast like he did with the testosterone. It hasn’t really done that much. He’s still, he’s blowing these girls out. It’s like the men would.

DJ:                                          13:16                     To me, it’s not even a point about running fast. It’s a matter of he now has an unfair advantage. He still has the bone structure of a male. It doesn’t matter what less testosterones or not.

Jerry:                                     13:26                     Bone structure, psychology,

DJ:                                          13:28                     body chemistry.

Jerry:                                     13:29                     Correct.

DJ:                                          13:30                     So I think it creates an unfair advantage when a MtoF, male to female transgender, competes with biological women.

Jerry:                                     13:41                     I agree. And that kind of goes into our next one. Where a transgender weightlifter was stripped of the world record because…

DJ:                                          13:48                     Well this is from Yahoo! Sports Canada, “Mary Gregory sparked controversy earlier in May after claiming on Instagram that she had won nine out of nine events, which includes setting a new Masters Worlds Squat record, OpenWorld Bench record, Master’s World Deadlift record and Master’s World Total Record. However, RAW power lifting federation have now decided to take the titles off the American athlete in a decision that could have huge ramifications for transgender athletes.” The president of the federation, Paul Bossi, told Mail Online that “Gregory could not have been considered a female when she broke the records. It was revealed that the female lifter was actually a male in the process of becoming a transgender female” Bossi said, “the rules and the basis of separating genders for competition are based on physiological classification rather than identification. On the basis of all information presented to the board of directors for this particular case. The conclusion made is that the correct physiological classification is male.

Jerry:                                     14:51                     So, therefore the NCAA is completely wrong.

DJ:                                          14:55                     Well, absolutely, but this, this isn’t the NCAA this the Power Lifting Federation.

Jerry:                                     14:59                     That’s my point.

DJ:                                          15:00                     Yeah, I, well, I said that in the beginning.

Jerry:                                     15:02                     If RAW or if the NCAA used the RAW definition there, the, the hurdle there would have been stripped of his wouldn’t be allowed to compete. So, then, my question would be why is one, okay, the NCAA and yet the other one got stripped. That’s a complete contradiction.

DJ:                                          15:17                     Here’s what I agree with. A quote from the USA Power lifting, “Men naturally have a larger bone structure, higher bone density, stronger connective tissue and higher muscle density than women. These traits, even when we do levels of testosterone do not go away while m to f, male to female, maybe weaker and less muscle than they once were. The biological benefits giving them at birth still remain over than of a female.

Jerry:                                     15:43                     Even though they’re weaker, they’re still stronger than the females. It’s not that hard. So for them, I mean I agree with RAW, they shouldn’t be allowed strip. They strip all the titles and the NCAA should read. They need to read this.

DJ:                                          15:56                     I totally agree. There was also an angry back backlash from Olympians, Great Britain Olympic swimmer, Sharon Davis tweeted “any records set by trans women’s, those born male with male biology and advantages. Should we remove when all this confusion and unfairness is sorted out”. She called it an unfair playing field.

Jerry:                                     16:16                     I wonder how they would feel if Michael Phelps went transgender and competed against the ladies.

DJ:                                          16:21                     Well, this particular Mary Gregory is complaining that the reason she got caught was because they made her take a urine test in front of someone and apparently that someone saw her penis, if that makes sense. And so she’s claimed she’s claiming that that’s the reason why it had that not happened. She never would have lost her titles.

Jerry:                                     16:42                     So, she got caught because she pees standing up.

DJ:                                          16:43                     No, she was sitting down when it happened, but

Jerry:                                     16:48                     that’s funny.

DJ:                                          16:49                     Well, that’s what she’s claiming.

Jerry:                                     16:50                     Going into our third topic, and this one is probably the most interesting, is the US women’s soccer. Now in the beginning here with the whole protests for the ladies, how they want equal pay with the men’s soccer team, they want to be compensated in every single way as the men and no, absolutely not. I would tell any of them, go try out for a men’s MLS team, which is the major league soccer team, not the Olympic team. If they can, they make it, they can compete and they get a contract. Great. But they probably won’t because there’ll be destroyed and if not hurt. So for what they’re asking for, Megan Rapinoe is one of them is complete equality which she’ll never get because to be equal, she would have to play with the men. And she’s not realizing that she can’t, she will get destroyed if she played against, look, the men’s Olympic team hasn’t been doing very well and the women’s team has, that doesn’t mean the women should play with the men that they’re better than the men.

DJ:                                          17:53                     I totally agree. I don’t, I think that will prove that they aren’t equally as far as on the soccer field, because most of the men would make the team if they were judged objectively, most men would make the team and very few female would.

Jerry:                                     18:05                     If they played a game where the men didn’t feel bad and it was all across the board competition, you think the ladies team would even stand a chance against the men’s team? And the men’s team isn’t really good. They’ll get to the men’s team would destroy the ladies team. So there’s no equality. They can’t be. What they’re asking for cannot and never will never happen.

DJ:                                          18:26                     Well, there’s also another issue I want to talk about in terms of Megan Rapinoe and that is her silent protest against President Trump and the national anthem. I have no problem with a protest with the national anthem, whether you say it or don’t say it, if you sit, stand, kneel.

Jerry:                                     18:45                     Where a hat, whatever.

DJ:                                          18:46                     It doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, for decades I would not stand for the national anthem, but not for the reasons she refused to stand. Uh, according to the Blaze, again, “the star for the women’s soccer team, kept promise to ignore the celebration national anthem as an f-you to President Donald Trump.” To me that is a problem. You want a protest, protest if you want, don’t want to stand or if you want to sit, you want to kneel do it. But to do it as, as an effort of disrespect is absolutely wrong. And I said this in episode seven, I think it needs to be repeated. The point of fascism is to make the masses act as one. What are you doing when everybody in a 10,000 seat arena stands and sings the same song trying to hit the same notes? It is the masses acting as one. It is inherently a fascist endeavor and it’s for that reason I refuse to stand with the masses. It doesn’t mean I’m not patriotic. It doesn’t mean I don’t want America and I don’t care about America. It means I refuse to do anything in fascistic, uh, in a fascistic way. That to me is a philosophical reason not to stand for the national anthem. Saying you want to f you to any president. I don’t care if it’s Donald Trump or Barack Obama, that is disrespectful and is wrong.

Jerry:                                     20:10                     I was going to bring that up because when Obama won, there are a lot of people who weren’t happy about it and they were told can’t disrespect the office. Got To respect it. There were some people, some athletes that didn’t want to go the White House and they were ridiculed for not going to Obama’s White House when they won championships. Now it’s completely opposite. They’re cheered when they don’t go to Trump’s, um, parties. And these people now can say f the president, but we couldn’t say f the President when Obama was in. That wasn’t allowed. It was, no, you must honor the president. Where did that go? Where did, I want to ask Ms Rapinoe? Where did that go? How come it wasn’t f Obama but now it’s f Trump and it’s okay. Eight years ago, couldn’t do that. Why? What has changed to where she can say f Trump, but I could not say f Obama, Barack Obama.? That bothers me.

DJ:                                          20:54                     I believe what has changed is falsely or not, they are assuming that Trump is anti-gay, anti LGBQ, whatever.

Jerry:                                     21:05                     They’re just following the press and

DJ:                                          21:07                     The point is she’s doing it because she’s gay and up that…

Jerry:                                     21:12                     Correct

DJ:                                          21:12                     pisses her off and she…

Jerry:                                     21:13                     The press have railed Trump for that reason. So she’s just jumping on that bandwagon period. End of story. That’s really kind of where she’s coming from and that gets into the equal pay.

DJ:                                          21:23                     I think she, she’s continuing on, we can talk about equal pay ina second.

Jerry:                                     21:27                     She’s making…

DJ:                                          21:27                     I think she’s, no, she also did it to align herself with Colin Kaepernick when he did it. Okay, fine. I that kind of a a protest I have no problem with now she says, she continues to do it just to give a metaphorical middle finger to the president? And that is where I say it as being wrong.

Jerry:                                     21:46                     That’s what Colin Kaepernick was doing and giving them a metaphorical middle finger to Roger Goodell and all the uh, ex veterans out there that, you know.

DJ:                                          21:53                     No, I don’t think it was a metaphorical middle finger. I think he was actually trying to protest what he saw. Rightly or wrongly, he saw as inequality in America, a black oppression, whatever. I don’t really think that was strictly to Donald Trump. What Megan Rapinoe is doing is directly to Donald Trump. I think that’s the difference. And that’s why I think she’s wrong in this sense.

Jerry:                                     22:17                     I would agree with you there.

DJ:                                          22:19                     So, if we want to go back to the issue of equal pay, um, they did a, Elle, did an article about Hope Solo and they talked about the equal pay and what went down. “The 2015 world cup final was watched by a report at 25 million Americans and remains the country’s most few soccer match, a male or female. But the tournament also highlighted longstanding discrepancies between the woman’s team and the men’s. It was played on artificial turf, an undisputedly more difficult terrain, the natural grass, whereas the men’s World Cup has always been on grass. When the woman won the team’s bonus was 2 million. In 2014 when the men lost in the 16th round, there’s was 9 million.’

Jerry:                                     23:03                     I completely agree, but here we go again. This is not really a hard, they can’t, they can’t, they are not equal. They cannot compete with the men. They will get blown away. So it would justify that 9 million from not winning and the ladies only getting 2 million.

DJ:                                          23:17                     Okay, well the article continues. It was about hope Solo. “So in 2015 at Hope solo’s urging the team replaced their lawyer who long represented the players union with Nichols, known as with a pugnacious approach. Nichols then hired Jeffrey Kessler and his colleagues at Winston and Strawn as outside council.” Kessler Handled Tom Brady’s to fake deflate gate just so it’s known. “Other one of the opening moves, one, his opening moves was filing the EEOC suit according to Kessler, it is almost classic example of gender discrimination. In 2016 if women won every one of the require 20 annual exhibition games, they could make $99,000. If the men lost every one, they’d still be paid $100,000. And while top female players earn a salary similar to that of top men, in 2015, hope solo made $366,000 lower tear males could make 10 times as much as comparable to women. This claim referenced the Federation’s own finance reports which stated in 2015 generated 24 million in event revenue and 2 million more than the men. The women, um, created that generated to 24 million. So U S S F stated in response to this lawsuit filed in May that the women received guarantee salaries while the men do not, unlike the women, the men tend to have substantial professional club contracts to fall back on. The response also declares that difference in pay are based on differences in the aggregated revenue, meaning the men’s team make more money, not necessarily through events, but via sponsorships and TV rights.”

Jerry:                                     25:01                     Hundred percent, absolutely correct. And again, we’re going to go back to simply look, ladies, play the men’s team, play him. Then we’re going back to Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs. But I kind of think he, he let her win, so whatever, but that if they play all, all they want the equality, like they say they’re equal and the men aren’t feeling sorry which to go and be equal now. Get, the men were feeling bad that they were killing them because the men are giving up now, so they’re not equal anymore. They will get destroyed. And then, well, that guy just said there is clearly irrelevant because they’re not equal and we’ve been about discrimination. People discriminate a hundred times a day. When they got married, they discriminated when they chose their wife, their partner, when they go get something to eat at a fast food or a restaurant, they’re discriminating between…why didn’t they pick the other restaurant. They’re just trying to see, they’re using the word discrimination. Have you point out in the wrong context and that’s the problem. They’re not equal. Sorry. As you said before, where’s the only place where you get a quality?

DJ:                                          25:53                     The local graveyard where everyone’s equally dead.

Jerry:                                     25:55                     Okay. Megan Rapinoe. That’s the, that’s the place that when you want equality, if you want it, that’s where you got to go. Sorry.

DJ:                                          26:01                     Well, it’s like you said, there’s no way that you can have total equality because earlier you brought up the results would always be a tie. If it was equal, there’d be no winners or losers, which once again we get to the participation trophies, which is the same exact, there’s the equality. That’s, that’s not the result of it.

Jerry:                                     26:16                     That’s not entertaining.

DJ:                                          26:18                     No, it’s not.

Jerry:                                     26:18                     So if all…

DJ:                                          26:19                     That’s what they want, that’s the outcome they are asking for. Whether they know it or not and may be unwittingly, but that’s what they’re asking for a tie in every single situation.

Jerry:                                     26:27                     If they want to bring the men’s pay down. Then men start tying all the time. The viewership would go down and they wouldn’t make the money they’re paying for.

DJ:                                          26:34                     It’s not just men. Every sport they want totally equality in every sport.

Jerry:                                     26:36                     It doesn’t, yeah. Women’s hockey, men’s hockey.

DJ:                                          26:38                     I’m going to get back to the Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King because I don’t think Billy Jean King may have been the best woman at the time, but Bobby Riggs wasn’t. I would like to see the best woman play the best man in any sport. I don’t care if it’s golf. I don’t care if it’s a tennis like uh, Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King. Any sport.

Jerry:                                     26:59                     And compete equally.

DJ:                                          26:59                     Oh, but you really want, but you really want to see a difference. Let’s look at hockey now.

Jerry:                                     27:04                     i was just going to….

DJ:                                          27:04                     I guarantee you there’s not a single one or very few anyways, there will be able to compete with the likes of Sydney Crosby or Claude Giroux or I mean any of the, the great players.

Jerry:                                     27:13                     Watching a Nhl game than watch a women’s game and you will see how slow and literally how anti checking the women are compared to the men. It’s not equal. It can’t be, I mean when I watched the women, the Olympic women and reminds me of men’s beer leagues, you know, some of the things they do in the size, I mean the women are kind of our size, you know, there are small, so it’s not the same, but I was going to bring up the women’s hockey. They’re good players and some of those games.

DJ:                                          27:39                     I think the women are great players, but they don’t, they’re not even close to being equal to the men, not even close as far as athletic sports goes.

Jerry:                                     27:47                     And put them on skates, the men would just, even though they’re on skates to, they would just tower over them. It wouldn’t be funny. It’d be horrifying it that really happened. So again, even for Ms Rapenoe and quality, it can’t happen. What she wants just will not happen. And I think you had brought up, she’s looking for an unequal advantage for all this here she wants to gain.

DJ:                                          28:07                     Now I just want to clarify. In Our world, I think women should have the equal opportunity to have any job they want. A very wise philosopher once said that a women should be able to have any job except professional football player or Longshoreman any other job a women should be able to go after and have. I totally agree with that. But I’m, I don’t see the kind of equality they’re looking for on any sports field. It cannot happen.

Jerry:                                     28:36                     Nope. I agree. And I don’t think when the US women dominated, uh, Thailand, it was dehumanizing. They were just, most of the press countries were outraged because they were celebrating after with 7-0 and 10-0. Well that’s, look, Thailand was horrible, but stop’em.

DJ:                                          28:51                     But that’s not also I heard, I also, people complain that they didn’t let up after seven.

Jerry:                                     28:55                     Absolutely.

DJ:                                          28:56                     No, but there is a point to scoring those goals. The point is that the tie breaker is in gold differential

Jerry:                                     29:01                     in soccer…

DJ:                                          29:02                     and it matters.

Jerry:                                     29:03                     Aggregate Score, and Alexi Lalas pointed that out. I don’t know the announcer, but he, I don’t know if he was the host or he was on the Olympic Committee, but he was going out them and he said, and I quote, they should’ve given up or let taking the foot off the throat after 3-0 then you didn’t need to score 4 it was over at halftime. They didn’t need to score. Seven goals and Alexia, basically saad what do you want them want to do, rollover.? Yes.

DJ:                                          29:25                     So, that means they roll over and then Thailand catches up and they lose.

Jerry:                                     29:29                     Brought that.

DJ:                                          29:29                     That’s okay?

Jerry:                                     29:30                     I brought that up earlier.

DJ:                                          29:31                     I think that’s what their goal is.

Jerry:                                     29:32                     That’s the whole point. We let up. They came back. We gave that game to them. How many times do we hear that? We lost that game. They didn’t win the game. We lost that. We gave that game to them. You’re right. That’s what they want.

DJ:                                          29:41                     One of the classic hallmark identifications of evil is hating the good for being good, not for their vices, not for their wrongdoings about, because they’re good. And this is an example of that. They didn’t go after them cause they did. They were bad. They went after them cause they’re too good.

Jerry:                                     30:00                     Yeah. It’s almost like the Detroit fans hating Matt Stafford because he’s good and they’re not. They’re jealous that they can’t do what he does and gets paid all that money.

DJ:                                          30:09                     Uh, I don’t know about Matt Stafford. I don’t think they hit him like that.

Jerry:                                     30:12                     Oh, but they do.

DJ:                                          30:13                     Better example is how Detroit fans hate Sidney Crosby cause he is so good. That’s…

Jerry:                                     30:20                     Your right. But Detroit fans hate Matthew Stafford on that level of (Sidney Crosby). I know that sounds ridiculous, but they do cause he hasn’t taken them anywhere. That’s a different topic.

DJ:                                          30:30                     It’s not as, hate is what I would apply to Sidney Crosby.

Jerry:                                     30:31                     It’s strong.

DJ:                                          30:34                     It’s more of a genuine, deep dislike. A disappointment because he didn’t take them to the promised land.

Jerry:                                     30:40                     When I hear sports radio and they bring up the Loins, there’s nothing but, and I’m talking venom and hate coming from these callers it and it’s not pretty. You’ll get one…

DJ:                                          30:50                     Are you sure it’s not coming from a place of disappointment or coming from a place of hate? I think it’s coming from a place of disappointment..

Jerry:                                     30:53                     I think. No, I think it’s jealousy cause they can’t do what Staffod does and Stafford makes $26 million. That bothers, I go to work, I’m a Joe lunchbox. I work 40 hours. He doesn’t work 40 hours. He is getting paid. It’s a jealousy, you know? It’s almost like they want that equality. If he can make 26 million.

DJ:                                          31:11                     First of all, they can’t do it as good as Stafford.

Jerry:                                     31:14                     I completely agree.

DJ:                                          31:14                     That’s no different than saying I want, I want Bill Gates money and they can’t do what he did as good as him.

Jerry:                                     31:20                     That’s why I bring it up because the women can’t do it with the men’s soccer team can. That’s why I brought that up. But some of the fans do hate certain of their stars because it’s an envy. They can’t do it. They think they’re better. They played high school sports. You know how many times I hear a person calling, I played college ball. Like they know what they’re talking about. They have to get that out there. They have to brag about it to make a justify that they can criticize, Matt Stafford. Now when really it’s because he makes all that money. Again, it’s a jealousy but we’re kind of digressing. But there’s also, if I don’t think Ms Rapinoe understands what she wants and the result that if it came through and you have a little story that you’re going to read, basically that’s going to explain what happens when it’s all equal.

DJ:          32:01     (From This is, uh, by Kurt Vonnegut jr and it’s “Harrison Bergeron”. This can take about five or so minutes. So bear with me.

 THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren’t quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron’s fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away.

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn’t think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn’t think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains.

George and Hazel were watching television. There were tears on Hazel’s cheeks, but she’d forgotten for the moment what they were about.

On the television screen were ballerinas.

A buzzer sounded in George’s head. His thoughts fled in panic, like bandits from a burglar alarm.

“That was a real pretty dance, that dance they just did,” said Hazel.

“Huh” said George.

“That dance-it was nice,” said Hazel.

“Yup,” said George. He tried to think a little about the ballerinas. They weren’t really very good-no better than anybody else would have been, anyway. They were burdened with sashweights and bags of birdshot, and their faces were masked, so that no one, seeing a free and graceful gesture or a pretty face, would feel like something the cat drug in. George was toying with the vague notion that maybe dancers shouldn’t be handicapped. But he didn’t get very far with it before another noise in his ear radio scattered his thoughts.

George winced. So did two out of the eight ballerinas.

Hazel saw him wince. Having no mental handicap herself, she had to ask George what the latest sound had been.

“Sounded like somebody hitting a milk bottle with a ball peen hammer,” said George.

“I’d think it would be real interesting, hearing all the different sounds,” said Hazel a little envious. “All the things they think up.”

“Um,” said George.

“Only, if I was Handicapper General, you know what I would do?” said Hazel. Hazel, as a matter of fact, bore a strong resemblance to the Handicapper General, a woman named Diana Moon Glampers. “If I was Diana Moon Glampers,” said Hazel, “I’d have chimes on Sunday-just chimes. Kind of in honor of religion.”

“I could think, if it was just chimes,” said George.

“Well-maybe make ’em real loud,” said Hazel. “I think I’d make a good Handicapper General.”

“Good as anybody else,” said George.

“Who knows better then I do what normal is?” said Hazel.

“Right,” said George. He began to think glimmeringly about his abnormal son who was now in jail, about Harrison, but a twenty-one-gun salute in his head stopped that.

“Boy!” said Hazel, “that was a doozy, wasn’t it?”

It was such a doozy that George was white and trembling, and tears stood on the rims of his red eyes. Two of of the eight ballerinas had collapsed to the studio floor, were holding their temples.

“All of a sudden you look so tired,” said Hazel. “Why don’t you stretch out on the sofa, so’s you can rest your handicap bag on the pillows, honeybunch.”

She was referring to the forty-seven pounds of birdshot in a canvas bag, which was padlocked around George’s neck. “Go on and rest the bag for a little while,” she said. “I don’t care if you’re not equal to me for a while.”

George weighed the bag with his hands. “I don’t mind it,” he said. “I don’t notice it any more. It’s just a part of me.”

“You been so tired lately-kind of wore out,” said Hazel. “If there was just some way we could make a little hole in the bottom of the bag, and just take out a few of them lead balls. Just a few.”

“Two years in prison and two thousand dollars fine for every ball I took out,” said George. “I don’t call that a bargain.”

“If you could just take a few out when you came home from work,” said Hazel. “I mean-you don’t compete with anybody around here. You just set around.”

“If I tried to get away with it,” said George, “then other people’d get away with it-and pretty soon we’d be right back to the dark ages again, with everybody competing against everybody else. You wouldn’t like that, would you?”

“I’d hate it,” said Hazel.

“There you are,” said George. The minute people start cheating on laws, what do you think happens to society?”

If Hazel hadn’t been able to come up with an answer to this question, George couldn’t have supplied one. A siren was going off in his head.

“Reckon it’d fall all apart,” said Hazel.

“What would?” said George blankly.

“Society,” said Hazel uncertainly. “Wasn’t that what you just said?

“Who knows?” said George.

The television program was suddenly interrupted for a news bulletin. It wasn’t clear at first as to what the bulletin was about, since the announcer, like all announcers, had a serious speech impediment. For about half a minute, and in a state of high excitement, the announcer tried to say, “Ladies and Gentlemen.”

He finally gave up, handed the bulletin to a ballerina to read.

“That’s all right-” Hazel said of the announcer, “he tried. That’s the big thing. He tried to do the best he could with what God gave him. He should geta nice raise for trying so hard.”

“Ladies and Gentlemen,” said the ballerina, reading the bulletin. She must have been extraordinarily beautiful, because the mask she wore was hideous. And it was easy to see that she was the strongest and most graceful of all the dancers, for her handicap bags were as big as those worn by two-hundred pound men.

And she had to apologize at once for her voice, which was a very unfair voice for a woman to use. Her voice was a warm, luminous, timeless melody. “Excuse me-” she said, and she began again, making her voice absolutely uncompetitive.

“Harrison Bergeron, age fourteen,” she said in a grackle squawk, “has just escaped from jail, where he was held on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government. He is a genius and an athlete, is under-handicapped, and should be regarded as extremely dangerous.”

A police photograph of Harrison Bergeron was flashed on the screen-upside down, then sideways, upside down again, then right side up. The picture showed the full length of Harrison against a background calibrated in feet and inches. He was exactly seven feet tall.

The rest of Harrison’s appearance was Halloween and hardware. Nobody had ever born heavier handicaps. He had outgrown hindrances faster than the H-G men could think them up. Instead of a little ear radio for a mental handicap, he wore a tremendous pair of earphones, and spectacles with thick wavy lenses. The spectacles were intended to make him not only half blind, but to give him whanging headaches besides.

Scrap metal was hung all over him. Ordinarily, there was a certain symmetry, a military neatness to the handicaps issued to strong people, but Harrison looked like a walking junkyard. In the race of life, Harrison carried three hundred pounds.

And to offset his good looks, the H-G men required that he wear at all times a red rubber ball for a nose, keep his eyebrows shaved off, and cover his even white teeth with black caps at snaggle-tooth random.

“If you see this boy,” said the ballerina, “do not – I repeat, do not – try to reason with him.”

There was the shriek of a door being torn from its hinges.

Screams and barking cries of consternation came from the television set. The photograph of Harrison Bergeron on the screen jumped again and again, as though dancing to the tune of an earthquake.

George Bergeron correctly identified the earthquake, and well he might have – for many was the time his own home had danced to the same crashing tune. “My God-” said George, “that must be Harrison!”

The realization was blasted from his mind instantly by the sound of an automobile collision in his head.

When George could open his eyes again, the photograph of Harrison was gone. A living, breathing Harrison filled the screen.

Clanking, clownish, and huge, Harrison stood – in the center of the studio. The knob of the uprooted studio door was still in his hand. Ballerinas, technicians, musicians, and announcers cowered on their knees before him, expecting to die.

“I am the Emperor!” cried Harrison. “Do you hear? I am the Emperor! Everybody must do what I say at once!” He stamped his foot and the studio shook.

“Even as I stand here” he bellowed, “crippled, hobbled, sickened – I am a greater ruler than any man who ever lived! Now watch me become what I can become!”

Harrison tore the straps of his handicap harness like wet tissue paper, tore straps guaranteed to support five thousand pounds.

Harrison’s scrap-iron handicaps crashed to the floor.

Harrison thrust his thumbs under the bar of the padlock that secured his head harness. The bar snapped like celery. Harrison smashed his headphones and spectacles against the wall.

He flung away his rubber-ball nose, revealed a man that would have awed Thor, the god of thunder.

“I shall now select my Empress!” he said, looking down on the cowering people. “Let the first woman who dares rise to her feet claim her mate and her throne!”

A moment passed, and then a ballerina arose, swaying like a willow.

Harrison plucked the mental handicap from her ear, snapped off her physical handicaps with marvelous delicacy. Last of all he removed her mask.

She was blindingly beautiful.

“Now-” said Harrison, taking her hand, “shall we show the people the meaning of the word dance? Music!” he commanded.

The musicians scrambled back into their chairs, and Harrison stripped them of their handicaps, too. “Play your best,” he told them, “and I’ll make you barons and dukes and earls.”

The music began. It was normal at first-cheap, silly, false. But Harrison snatched two musicians from their chairs, waved them like batons as he sang the music as he wanted it played. He slammed them back into their chairs.

The music began again and was much improved.

Harrison and his Empress merely listened to the music for a while-listened gravely, as though synchronizing their heartbeats with it.

They shifted their weights to their toes.

Harrison placed his big hands on the girls tiny waist, letting her sense the weightlessness that would soon be hers.

And then, in an explosion of joy and grace, into the air they sprang!

Not only were the laws of the land abandoned, but the law of gravity and the laws of motion as well.

They reeled, whirled, swiveled, flounced, capered, gamboled, and spun.

They leaped like deer on the moon.

The studio ceiling was thirty feet high, but each leap brought the dancers nearer to it.

It became their obvious intention to kiss the ceiling. They kissed it.

And then, neutraling gravity with love and pure will, they remained suspended in air inches below the ceiling, and they kissed each other for a long, long time.

It was then that Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General, came into the studio with a double-barreled ten-gauge shotgun. She fired twice, and the Emperor and the Empress were dead before they hit the floor.

Diana Moon Glampers loaded the gun again. She aimed it at the musicians and told them they had ten seconds to get their handicaps back on.

It was then that the Bergerons’ television tube burned out.

Hazel turned to comment about the blackout to George. But George had gone out into the kitchen for a can of beer.

George came back in with the beer, paused while a handicap signal shook him up. And then he sat down again. “You been crying” he said to Hazel.

“Yup,” she said.

“What about?” he said.

“I forget,” she said. “Something real sad on television.”

“What was it?” he said.

“It’s all kind of mixed up in my mind,” said Hazel.

“Forget sad things,” said George.

“I always do,” said Hazel.

“That’s my girl,” said George. He winced. There was the sound of a rivetting gun in his head.

“Gee – I could tell that one was a doozy,” said Hazel.

“You can say that again,” said George.

“Gee-” said Hazel, “I could tell that one was a doozy.”

 There is the ultimate outcome of the equality these people are asking for.

Jerry:                                     43:25                     So yes, Ms. Rapinoe. Is that what you want? Is that what you’re looking for? Because that’s what you’re going to get when you want equality. End it at that.

DJ:                                      43:34                   This is the grand designs podcast. Let me tell you where you can get in touch with us first before we let you go. Our website is Our email is GrantDesignsPodcasts@Yahoo. Uh, you can follow us on Twitter @GrandDesignsPod. Instagram is at GrandDesignsPodcast. You can hear this podcast just about anywhere you get podcasts. Now, this is the Grand Design Podcast. Who are you listening to?

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