Grand Designs Podcast – Episode 22 – Nike and the Betsy Ross Shoe Controversy Transcript

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Jerry:                                     00:08                     This is Grand Design Podcast with DJ and Jerry Grand where we link the chains of reason of sports, politics and culture.

DJ:                                          00:47                     Welcome to the Grand Designs Podcast. I’m DJ Grand and I’m here ,as always, with my brother Jerry.

Jerry:                                     00:53                     Hello.

DJ:                                          00:53                     Uh, you can get a hold of us at our website at Our email is and you can always follow us on Twitter @GrandDesignsPod and follow us on Instagram @GrandDesignsPodcast. Today is episode 22 when we’re going to be talking about the controversy that Colin Kaepernick has seemed to have ignited when he told Nike to pull their Betsy Ross sneakers.

Jerry:                                     01:21                     Yeah, he’s at it again. Um, I really wanted to find out why he’s at it. I could figure out the whole thing with the American flag and the anthem and the 49ers and all that. This one really puzzled me. Um, but I think it’s just attention. He needs to draw attention or he has some kind of, uh, power with the public Nike that if he basically says a certain product or logo is offensive likely in this case he’s going to listen.

DJ:                                          01:46                     Well, I have a kind of where we attack at twofold on what’s Kaepernick’s thinking and what Nike’s thinking by agreeing with him. Kaepernick’s argument is that the 13 star, Betsy Ross flag represents to many an era of slavery. As Kaepernick, who’s a client (of Nike) reportedly said. But the problem with that, that’s a fallacious argument. It’s logically fallacious. It’s an appeal to the masses. Or when I was studying logic, it’s a appeal to common belief. Uh, right there. It’s flawed. It doesn’t matter what the, how many think of it. That’s such a wrong way of thinking. Beyond that, now what Nike’s thinking, I think they did it because they really thought they could profit from this. They profited from the last time their stocks went up that were during the, the knee, or taking a knee by Kaepernick and what happened again, their stocks went up again.

Jerry:                                     02:36                     Yeah that could be something with Nike and their marketing. I’m that that’s, I would hope not, but that’s a possibility. But this was the first time that I have heard the Betsy Ross flag use associated with the slavery era. Never have I heard about that. I’ve heard the confederate flag many, many years. Uh, even back as a child, uh, I heard about how that wasn’t taken very well with the other slavery in the north and south, but never, I mean never until now was the Betsy Ross flag, which caught me off guard that, that Nike would even listen.

DJ:                                          03:10                     Well, the current problem that some people are saying is that the 18th century flag, by the way, this is from Yahoo Sports, the 18th century flag has raised concerns for representing America’s era of slavery and recent appropriation as a symbol for white nationalist groups like Patriot Movement and Identity Evropa E-V-R-O-P-A, if that’s how you pronounce it, whose public rise has coincided with the 2016 election of President Donald Trump. So they’re basically saying the white nationalists have appropriated the, uh, the Betsy Ross flag. That’s their argument.

Jerry:                                     03:44                     Well, I know that the picture that you gave me earlier that shows the inauguration and that wasn’t brought up then.

DJ:                                          03:51                     Well, describe the picture then. If you are going to bring it up, describe it.

Jerry:                                     03:54                     With the pictures. Basically it is of the inauguration of President Obama and behind him are six flags and on the two outside flags are the Betsy Ross flags. Sorry, there’s five flags a but the two outside ones are the Betsy Ross and he’s giving his inauguration. Therefore he must back this whole prep, this notion of white supremacy, the Betsy Ross flag, which will, I think it’s a bunch of garbage.

DJ:                                          04:18                     Or that (he’s) appropriating and slavery. That could be too. Either way, if Barack Obama did it and was okay, it should be okay for Nike to have I have it on their sneakers and be okay.

Jerry:                                     04:28                     That’s just the first time I’ve heard about this because Trump was elected. This was never brought up ever with this Betsy Ross flag, which is why I’m kind of borderline stunned that Nike would even listen cause this was not an issue. Again, I’m looking at the picture right now and he’s giving this speech. People are standing up and in the far left and right is the Betsy Ross flag. Where was this outrage then? Wasn’t there because it’s ridiculous. I again, I don’t know why Nike would even listen to it unless they understand that this is going to do good for their markets, their profits. Uh, I was also, I was looking on the internet and I found a pair of those shoes for $2,500.

DJ:                                          05:08                     That’s the most, I’ve also seen it going for $2,000.

Jerry:                                     05:10                     So, they have now the people who were fortunate enough to get those shoes and they’re putting them on various websites and selling them, they’re going to profit from it.

DJ:                                          05:18                     Well, what caused that,? This controversy and, and Nike pulling them, now they’re, they’re rare. So the value goes up.

Jerry:                                     05:25                     Correct and if Nike even puts them back on the market, that price from $200 we’ll shoot to $500 and people will buy, we’ll pay it.

DJ:                                          05:32                     In the beginning.

Jerry:                                     05:33                     Correct. And that’s why I think what you’re saying about marketing Nike’s marketing, you may be 100% correct.

DJ:                                          05:39                     Well, this is once again from Yahoo Finance. The sneaker in question is the Nike Air Max One Quick Strike Fourth of July as first reported by the Wall Street Journal, the former San Francisco 49er turned activist believes that Nike shouldn’t sell a shoe that depicts a revolutionary flag of the 1770’s because it hearkens back to a time when slavery existed in the United States. If you pay attention to Thomas Sowell, he’ll tell you that during that time of the, when they were colonies, not yet, the United States, when they are still colonies, just 3% of all the African Americans or African slaves came to the colonies, 47% went to Brazil. I don’t hear any complaints about what Brazil does. Nothing at all. We did 3% and that is a mortal sin, but 47% seems to be okay and ignored.

Jerry:                                     06:38                     That should tell you that there’s a definite agenda behind this.

DJ:                                          06:42                     Not just that,

Jerry:                                     06:43                     It’s not logic.

DJ:                                          06:43                     It’s not just that. If you study the, uh, the Islamic, uh, progression, when, when they took, when they won a war, they took over the, uh, the, the men that were left behind and the women, the men were probably killed, most likely killed. The women were taken as slaves. The Islamicists believe in slavery. They still do to this day. How did, now the question is how do they, Africans get to become slaves. Same process. The Africans went to war with other Africans, captured them, and Africans sold them to America. So how come there are not any moral flaws to that?

Jerry:                                     07:23                     It’s coming clear that that’s their agenda. If that was brought up, made to light. It would make them look like such idiots. So of course that’s suppressed and the media is doing a very good job of suppressing that. No one’s bringing up these other facts that basically prove this just ridiculous.

DJ:                                          07:37                     Well, absolutely slavery is wrong no matter what. No matter and what incarnation it takes, it’s absolutely wrong, but it doesn’t make it right for Brazil to take 47%. And it’s certainly doesn’t make it right for the Islamicists to take, to take slaves to this very day. I mean, the Boca Haram in the Congo in Africa, they take slaves today. Nothing from the liberals on the left on that at all. I don’t hear anything about it.

Jerry:                                     08:02                     Nothing in the media report that because, again, if they did report it, it would make this whole issue here, it would go away and they don’t want it to go away. They want to make every little thing. What I’m getting is everything in the beginning of our country is going to be representative slavery.

DJ:                                          08:18                     Well that that can logically, if you want to be consistent about it, anything from pre-civil war and back has to be a symbol of slavery. And I’ll get into that later. Um, but right now I want to talk about, uh, the Arizona governor. Uh, Doug Doucey, who is a Republican after Nike took their action tweeted “instead of celebrating American history that the week of our nation’s independence, Nike has apparently decided that Betsy Ross is unworthy and has bowed to the current onslaught of political correctness and historical revisionism, Nike has made its decision and now we’re making ours, I’ve ordered the Arizona Commerce authority to withdraw all financial incentive of dollars under their discretion that the state was providing for the company to locate here.” So, maybe their profits are up cause their stocks are up, but they’re going to lose some money from certain, uh, governments or state governments.

Jerry:                                     09:17                     Personally, I’m done. I’m done buying anything Nike. I was actually looking for a mock Tiger, a turtleneck but that’s done. I was even going to pay the 90 bucks for it cause I do like those, but not now. Not, not even going to consider it a, it’s all in the past. So I agree with them boycotting Nike, but others should do the same thing.

DJ:                                          09:36                     Uh, well a minor League Baseball team also trolled Colin Kaepernick. This is also from Yahoo Sports. Uh, the Justin time for July 4th, the AA affiliate of the Chicago Cubs has chosen to stoke the flames of America’s culture wars with a publicity stunt involving Colin Kaepernick, Nike and the American flag. Uh, they tweeted, uh, “hey @Kaepernick7, after a lot of thought, we decided it’s best to just do it.” And they put a, the groundskeepers put the flag on their infield, an imprint of it and then they tweeted a picture of that.

Jerry:                                     10:12                     The Betsy Ross flag?

DJ:                                          10:13                     The Betsy Ross flag.

Jerry:                                     10:15                     Good for them.

DJ:                                          10:15                     Well, yes and no cause then afterwards they came back and apologize for it said if they offended anybody, there were sorry. So good, yes and then they got weak kneed.

Jerry:                                     10:23                     That’s the whole problem they worried about offending people. Right Is Right.

DJ:                                          10:26                     See and even on, in this same article, they’d talk about how the flag is appropriated by hate groups. And in this one they go as far and say that “the New York chapter of the Ku Klux Klan has recently used the Betsy Ross flag alongside the confederate flag for recruiting efforts.” My problem with that argument is (that) they are giving them that power just by, by saying this and not using it, you’re giving them that power, take that power back and be proud of our American heritage, wrong and right.

Jerry:                                     10:57                     Until this issue, I’d never even heard about the Betsy Ross flag being anything related to slavery whatsoever. So yes, you’re, you’re 100% correct. Now that they’re bringing it up, that just going to fuel it. Uh, the attention, the negative attention is just going to the Ku Klux Klan is going to use it to their benefit, especially if it’s with this white nationalism and they’re going to start using it. You’re right. Take it away. Go back to how it was when it was never even a thought. That was just a ridiculous thought of anything.

DJ:                                          11:21                     Now, both Kaepernick and Nike have the right to do with what they’re doing. I have no problem with, with them doing what they’re doing. They have the right…

Jerry:                                     11:29                     Absolutely, it’s their business

DJ:                                          11:29                     However, I think Kaepernick is wrong on this issue. Totally. Because it’s not a symbol of slavery. Even if it is being appropriated by certain white nationalists that doesn’t make a symbol of slavery. And besides, if we go to Nike, I see we go back to our first episode, it’s pragmatism, rearing its ugly head again. The end justifies the means and they’re willing, they’re basically wetting their fingers, sticking up in the air and thinking, well, if this will profit us, we’ll do it. If they thought it wouldn’t profit them, they wouldn’t do it.

Jerry:                                     12:02                     Right. If they see their profits go down, who knows if they’ll make the turn on it, but they absolutely are appealing to the masses, uh, and the most of the ignorant and then they get rewarded for it as if they’re some compassionate, uh, company when they’re not. They’re part of the, what I’ve heard many call the evil corporate giant. That’s what they are. Yet they’re doing this to placate to those people so they don’t come after them. This is why I’m done with Nike.

DJ:                                          12:27                     Well, do you think as possible at Nike is doing it to avoid a black eye?

Jerry:                                     12:29                     No. Again, if it was a confederate flag, I’d go, okay, I get it. But the Betsy Ross flag? No, and Colin Kaepernick bringing it up just out of the blue just to raise his attention. And the more I think about the more, I’m kind of leaning towards you. It’s just a, it was like the classic coke and new coke thing and they did it knowing full well of the outrage and I’m sure Kaepernick discussed it with Nike.

DJ:                                          12:52                     I have a (history) problem with the confederate flag too. That flag is, is not a slavery flag. What it is, is the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. It’s their banner. That’s all it was. It was. And the guy who in fact, Robert, uh, Robert E. Lee didn’t have any slaves and Stonewall Jackson who was the reason the south was winning before his death, he was totally against slavery, but he was pro Virginia and he was going to fight for Virginia no matter what the decision was. So the two top guys weren’t even slave owners.

Jerry:                                     13:31                     That is something I was ignorant to, which means now that confederate flag was just smeared. And taken down to where the masses actually went against it, to where it’s been removed literally from everywhere down south. There’s a couple of states I think that are holding steadfast and they’re calling them the racist states now. So…

DJ:                                          13:45                     See I think that is the appropriation. That they are appropriating that flag as a symbol of slavery when it never was.

Jerry:                                     13:51                     No, I agree. Now that I’ve been informed. Correct. Your 100% right.

DJ:                                          13:55                     So, I think it’s not just the Betsy Ross flag. I mean I’ve even heard of things, have you ever heard of the Bennington flag?

Jerry:                                     14:03                     No.

DJ:                                          14:03                     That’s the flag, it’s to blue background with the stripes white and red stripes. But in the blue field is 13 stars in the 76.

Jerry:                                     14:15                     Okay. Yeah

DJ:                                          14:15                     I’ve heard that flag is also a symbol of racism when it isn’t. Also the classic a “Don’t Tread On Me” flag, the Gadsden flag. Now he was a slave owner but he was also fighting against, he wanted to end slaves just like Thomas Jefferson. So just because he was a slave owner doesn’t mean the flag represents slavery. In fact, it represents, get off me, don’t tread on me, leave me alone. And that’s what should’ve been applied to black Americans as well.

Jerry:                                     14:45                     Which is what the 13 colonies were telling England, leave us alone with the tea tax or just get away, which I completely agree with ’em and I don’t like that it was being represented with slavery. The don’t tread on me flag that was just completely incorrect. But yeah, you’re, they’re taking this and they’re going to get every single mile as they can, as long as it works, they’re going to keep on going forward. He’s going to take somebody to stand up and say you are wrong. Now Nike, the business decision, I don’t know if they did this as a business decision and it was just flat out to make money. That could have been a good call. Uh, but if it was done for Colin Kaepernick and the, uh, his, uh, so-called cause, then no, they’re wrong. So I have them know that their, their inner workings, if they really meant to do this and then Kaepernick came to them and brought this up and they pulled it then they’re wrong

DJ:                                          15:33                     I guess. Good is relative here. Uh, good for their bottom line. Yes, but not good for philosophical reasons.

Jerry:                                     15:40                     I agree. Correct it’s a good business decision, you know, that’s what it was. Yeah. Pragmatism to the core. But they, they, you know, their profits which they satisfied that whatever needed their shareholders.

DJ:                                          15:52                     This is one of those rare times where it’s explicit brought out where sports and politics cross and the reason that it happens, that is because this is a sports ethic show. Well your politics is derivative of your ethics, your politics is derived from your ethical principles. So, and this is one of those times where it’s just out there glaring for everyone to see.

Jerry:                                     16:18                     I think you’re seeing Nike’s political

DJ:                                          16:20                     and ethical

Jerry:                                     16:21                     I was going to say and ethical was coming from that. What you just said. I think that’s coming to light right now.

DJ:                                          16:26                     Absolutely. And it shows that, I just don’t think my biggest problem with this is the lack of principles, lack of standing up. They could if they were going to do it in the first place and they released some of it cause it’s out in the secondary market, if there were going to do it, they should have stood by their principles and say, no, we’re going to do it. We’re going to let the chips fall where they may. I mean they have the right to pull back any product. I think I read also they did this in China because uh, the maker of a (Chinese) of the shoe that they were putting out in China was all for that. You know, the, all the riots are going on and in Hong Kong right now?

Jerry:                                     17:00                     Yes

DJ:                                          17:00                     The riots are because of the laws that are going to extradite people from Hong Kong to China. Well the guy who made that, those shoes was for that law. So China, I mean, so Nike pulled that shoe. That to me is on principle, but they’ll do that. They’ll stand on principle for that, but they won’t stand on principle for the Betsy Ross flag and say, no, this is not slavery. And just because you say it is.

Jerry:                                     17:25                     No, I, I completely agree, but this is where you have to draw the line. I know Nike’s motto is just do it and you really now, yet I have to say just don’t do it.

DJ:                                          17:31                     They just didn’t do it. They pulled it back.

Jerry:                                     17:33                     And now it’s don’t do it. Don’t do it. Meaning don’t do it. They pulled it back and then don’t do it. Don’t buy their products. Just flat out don’t buy their products. It’s like, there’s a, there’s a couple of morning or one morning show for sports talk radio that I just will not listen to. Don’t care what they’ll talk about. Don’t care who they’re guest are. I just will not listen. Same thing with Nike now. I will not buy their products and others and to do the same thing that that’s the only way they’re going to get this.

DJ:                                          17:59                     Well, once again, I want to say that Kaepernick has the right to to say and believe every he wants to say as, does Nike have the right to do this? I just think they’re both at the very least misinformed at the most politically or philosophically incorrect.

Jerry:                                     18:15                     They can be as wrong as they want to be.

DJ:                                          18:17                     Absolutely, I totally agree with that. Now, Kaepernick then went a step further and tweeted an out of context quotes from a speech by Frederick Douglas.

Jerry:                                     18:30                     He’s been doing that a lot lately.

DJ:                                          18:31                     Yeah. Yeah. Well he’s trying to, he’s trying to appropriate Frederick Douglass into his argument and his quote was, this is from the blaze. His quote was, “what I have”, or this is the quote from Frederick Douglas Actually, that Kaepernick tweeted “what I have or those I represent to do with your national independence this 4th of July, of yours is yours not mine. This is not a nation on earth. There’s not a nation on earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody then are people of these United States, at this very hour.” He took a little tiny excerpt from that speech and once again appropriated it for his,

Jerry:                                     19:15                     To back his cause.

DJ:                                          19:17                     Yeah, to make his argument better, but thankfully Ted Cruz came out, um, Republican senator from Texas and he responded, uh, to Kaepernick by saying, “you quote a mighty and historic speech by a great abolitionist, Frederick Douglas, but without context. Many modern readers will misunderstand. He went on. Senator Cruz went on to explain this speech was given in 1852 before the civil war when the (abomination) of slavery still existed thanks to Douglas and so many other heroes, we ended the grotesque evil and have made enormous strides in protecting the civil rights of everybody. Douglas was not anti-American as Kaepernick is painting him. He was rightly and passionately anti-slavery. Cruz continued. He concluded the speech as follows. “Allow me to say in conclusion, notwithstanding the dark picture I have this day presented of the state of the union. I do not despair of this country. There are forces in operation which must inevitably work the downfall of slavery. The arm of the Lord is not shortened and the doom of slavery is certain. I therefore leave off where I began with hope while drawing encouragement from the Declaration of Independence, the great principles it contains and the genius of American institutions. My spirit is also cheered by the obvious tendencies of the age.” Kaepernick did not put that in his tweet at all. And notice he even brought up the declaration of independence, which they are now saying is a slave, uh, appropriating or, or backing a document, which isn’t true.

Jerry:                                     21:00                     First, how convenient for him to leave that out? And of course he would because that would make his argument look like a complete idiot. And the more we speak, the more he is looking like that. But a, you had pointed out a couple of days ago to me, um, that Thomas Jefferson pretty much abolished slavery, except when you just like today’s politicians and politics are negotiations going on. And if we wanted this country to go forward, Ben Franklin knew enough that they’re going to have to compromise. And give into two states and as those two states that I’m not hearing any blame for cause that’s what kept slavery going. Had they agreed to the, uh, original Thomas Jefferson Declaration of independence where all men are created equal, it would have been done right then and there.

DJ:                                          21:43                     Yes, Jefferson did want to abolish slavery in the original draft of the Declaration of independence and the committee was a John Adams Jefferson. I think John Jay can be wrong about that. And Benjamin Franklin and when it came to, to talk about so much, not just that with scratch out of his, his original draft and one of the major ones was slavery and it was, uh, the Carolinas that threatened to walk out and they needed an absolute union and they did the vote needed to pass 13 nothing. So that threat of them walking out would have ruined everything and there would’ve been no nation whatsoever. So they had to compromise.

Jerry:                                     22:22                     Correct it. It’s what Benjamin Franklin was smart enough to realize what had to be done. It’s just a shame how that isn’t brought up at those two states. If you really think about it, go back in time and they basically go along and they don’t hold out and we get this, the original declaration of independence, the world’s a lot of different, a completely different, it probably would have avoided this. The civil war is what you were bringing up. So that was a huge mistake by two states, but they don’t receive any blame either.

DJ:                                          22:51                     The civil war I think was caused by that and I think Georgia also followed, followed suit once they were convinced the Carolinas were going to do that and that just made it all unravel.

Jerry:                                     23:00                     It’s called momentum But yeah, I could see that. But the whole point being as it would’ve been a completely different union had they had agreed to it, uh, the slavery would have been done right then and there.

DJ:                                          23:08                     Oh, I don’t think there would have been a civil war had they had they done what Thomas Jefferson wanted in the first place and now they’re even trying to say that Jefferson, because he owned slaves and his slaves were inherited from his wife when his wife’s father died because he owned slaves that therefore he should, he, he’s no good, which is totally wrong because he was a man of principle and even so he wanted to set his slaves free. Even if he wanted to, let’s come home with that premise. He would’ve been breaking the law. It was illegal at that time to educate slaves and it was also illegal to set them free. So he would have been breaking law had he done what the people are accused of not doing.

Jerry:                                     23:48                     It’s tough to realize, but it did look it was wrong, but back in that time it was a completely different time. In the 1700s, 1600s, it was accepted. I’m not trying to justify it, but that time and this time just would collide. They just would not coexist. So therefore, I mean, I completely understand. Back in that time, it was just accepted and again, you brought up the Brazil, how many they kept and I haven’t heard anything about that or how many slaves they took. Um, again, it’s just the different times and you can’t really compare the two that that was accepted to where when you go over the overtime that we’re at now, look at the forties, 50s, 30s. How we’ve changed a philosophically, ethically, completely different in night and day. And now it’s getting to a point of complete ridiculous to where some of our, uh, the ignorant are being indoctrinated into the, this ridiculous, what I’m talking about right here, the Betsy Ross flag equaling slavery, which it does not white supremacists, it’s all garbage.

DJ:                                          24:46                     They are so anti-white right now and went to forgetting the fact is there were no black senators and congressmen when slavery was ended. Every single vote for it was done by a white person. Every single one.

Jerry:                                     24:59                     They’re not going to bring that up because I’d make them look bad. This is all basically to look to make, again, as soon as Trump got elected, that’s when I really heard of the white supremacist all the time and it’s really getting tiresome now. To where I’m almost tuning out.

DJ:                                          25:13                     There’s the Pragmatism right there, the justifies the means and the end is get rid of Trump no matter what and they will do anything. Say anything. I’m bringing up things that just so untrue about him. Like I am not a Trump supporter. There are some things he’s done that is just totally wrong. Like for example, the tariffs against our allies. He was just wrong. He was, I think he’s right for doing it to China because they’ve been stealing our technology for years, decades, but to do it against our allies, I think he was wrong about that and that’s not the only thing I think he’s wrong about, but the point is they will say and do anything just to get rid of him, the end justifies the means.

Jerry:                                     25:49                     I’m going to agree and I’m going to bring up a point back when Obama was first elected, no, I was not happy, but I was told respect to office and the president and I did.

DJ:                                          25:57                     Not only that, if you said anything against him you were accused of being a racist cause he’s black.

Jerry:                                     26:00                     Right? But I was told respect it. He won, the majority voted him in and I did. That doesn’t seem to be the case now to where the masses are not respecting the fact that the majority wanted Trump, whether they like it or not. And they did that to themselves. It’s a whole different story. But just because Trump won, now they’re like little babies crying and doing exactly what I was trying to do when Obama got elected. I was wrong. But now they are correct. This is all confusing.

DJ:                                          26:27                     Right now the Democrats are also saying about the uh, disenfranchising of the voters, but what are they doing when they want to take away the legitimate vote of the people that voted for Trump? I didn’t vote for him. I didn’t vote for Hillary either. I wouldn’t vote. I said at the time, if you vote for Hillary, you lack a conscience, if you vote for Trump, you lack intelligence. I have both. But what are they doing to those voters that voted for Trump? They are trying to disenfranchise them.

Jerry:                                     26:57                     They’re making them look like idiots and bringing them down for the mistake. They made it. I think it’s only getting worse because it comes approval rating is going up lately. I mean it was down for awhile there, but now it’s just going up. And I think the Democrats are kind of doing that to him.

DJ:                                          27:09                     So, if it’s true that the flag represents the era of slavery, well then anything from that era would represent the era of slavery

Jerry:                                     27:20                     If you go by that logic, you are correct.

DJ:                                          27:21                     So, I have a list of all these inventions that if we are logically consistent or if Kaepernick is and those who follow him, these, these are our symbols of slavery as well. Now I have to start off by prefacing this by saying, and it wasn’t until July, 1833 that slavery was abolished in England. So even these, these inventions that were invented by Englishmen, we’re still symbols of slavery. For example, in 17,22 French C Hopffer for patent invented fire extinguisher. Every time you want to put a fire out, you’re, you’re promoting slavery. Uh, Joseph Priestley in 1767 invented carbonated water. Every time you have a, a pop, you’re back in slavery.

Jerry:                                     28:08                     A Bublé

DJ:                                          28:09                     yes, basically, uh, James Watson, the steam engine in 1769 how about this one? And 1775, Alexander Cummings invented the flush toilet. So every single time you use the facilities at your house or at a public restaurant, you’re back in slavery.

Jerry:                                     28:27                     If we go by Kaepernick, you’ve got to ban those and we should go to the outhouses.

DJ:                                          28:30                     Okay. Then of course, now those were, those were Englishman. Uh, of course we have a Benjamin Franklin who invented bifocal glasses. So they are the precursor to our current progressive glasses that I currently wear. So therefore

Jerry:                                     28:44                     Can’t use those.

DJ:                                          28:45                     Can’t use those, the self-winding clock in 1783 by Benjamin, uh, Hanks just can’t use that anymore. Uh, the smallpox vaccination in 1797 and then a year later and a 79, eight, the more vaccinations, uh, by John Barber, all vaccinations must be a symbol of slavery,

Jerry:                                     29:07                     A slavery issue. Correct.

DJ:                                          29:08                     Uh, we’d go, we can go further. The steam locomotive, uh, invented by a Englishman, George Stephenson can’t use locomotive, which is now we have engines, not steam, but still can’t use it. It was a precursor.

Jerry:                                     29:22                     Before that, it was rowing by hand. So that made a, a improvement on our life. But you’re correct. Can’t use it.

DJ:                                          29:27                     In 1819 Samuel Fahnestock Patents the Soda Fountain and an 1832 John Matthews invented a design that would make artificially carbon water more cost effective. There’s really where the, uh, the pop gone once again, the electric motor in 1821 by Michael Faraday, uh, the first mechanical computer designed by Charles Babbage, who was an Englishman, but still that is a precursor to our computer. So if you’re using a computer, it must be a symbol of slavery. Uh, John Walker in 1827 invented modern matches. So there goes matches. Uh, here’s a good one. In 1834, Jacob Perkins in American invented the refrigerator. Every single time would go to refrigerator very, now you’re backing slavery. Uh, so there also 1835 Morris code was invented by Samuel Morris. Uh, the revolver was invented by Samuel Colt, 1835. Here’s one that goes directly to sports. In 1839, Charles Goodyear invented the vulcanization of rubber. You know what that is, right?

Jerry:                                     30:36                     The puck, hockey puck,

DJ:                                          30:37                     hockey puck. So therefore every single hockey game must be a symbol of slavery according to Kaepernick’s logic.

Jerry:                                     30:44                     I think it demonstrated the ridiculousness, but I’d like to hear what our listeners have to say about this list and if they agree with this Betsy Ross flag and please, we would love to hear from you so we can continue this conversation. And even if you like, call in be a guest to one of our shows to discuss this in depth because this is something that I think the society needs to talk about because it is wrong and when wrong is wrong, it’s got to be brought up and you can’t do any anymore. We were raised to where if we made a mistake, there are consequences. There are consequences for this, but I don’t think Kaepernick, Nike or really, that whole agenda is actually seeing those.

DJ:                                          31:18                     I just want to reiterate that by using the argument that the white nationalists are appropriating it, you’re giving them power by not using the flag, take the power back from them. Don’t allow them to have that power. Use it for what it’s worth and it’s a representation of freedom, all men, freedom, black, white, all of us.

Jerry:                                     31:38                     For me to close, I will say they’re not going to do that because if they did, they couldn’t use it against the white nationalist. They want to just highlight what idiots the white nationalists are. And by doing that, and they’d come out with using the flag, they can say, you see, that’s what, that’s why they’re doing it. And they’re getting away with it.

DJ:                                          31:52                     You don’t need to do it to take the flag. Give them the flag to point out how wrong they are.

Jerry:                                     31:56                     Agree. I agree. Don’t get it.

DJ:                                          31:58                     I disagree with (doing) that.

Jerry:                                     31:59                     That’s the method behind the their madness

DJ:                                          32:00                     Their method is wrong. It’s pragmatism. Anything they can do. I think this is while I already said earlier, it’s all against Trump and if they’re all, they will, um, put Trump in with that group of white nationals to try and get and make him look bad and get them out.

Jerry:                                     32:13                     Anything to bring Trump down. I completely agree. It’s wrong.

DJ:                                          32:17                     So I just want to remind everyone that you can get in touch with us at GrandDesignsPodcast@Yahoo. Our website is Follow us on Twitter @GrandDesignsPod. Instagram is @ GrandDesignsPodcast. This is the Grand Designs Podcast. Who are you listening to?

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